JT,
Differ? To me, it seems we agree, right?
Wasn't saying that other types would not benefit (this
guy built a softwing for a D4 and enjoyed many of the
benefits you mention: http://tinyurl.com/fscu3 ).
However - for a boat like Elementarry - some of the
benefits are of greater magnitude than for most others
- especially number 3 "pointing ability" on your
list(Because of speed and apparent wind). And that
some disadvantages might be of less magnitude -
especially number 4 - "light air starting" - due to
less weight to accelerate.
Also number 2 "cost" is partly mitigated due to less
area required.
Hoping to see wings of all kinds on kinds of crafts
and hopefully on a Elementarry soon!
/Kenneth
--- jjtctaylor <jtaylor412@cinci.rr.com> skrev:
> Kenneth,
>
> I differ on the opportunity. I think many if not
> most can benefit,
> even the slow.
>
> I can list the advantages and you can identify where
> I err.
>
> (1) lower mast height, reduced CE
> (2) Higher efficiency less heeling forces
> (3) points significantly higher
> (4) Hugely simpler to control with manual or
> automatic rudder angle
> (5) Little or no maintenance, epoxy coat lasts at
> least 20 years
> (6) No extra hardware, winches, ropes clutches, etc.
>
> Disadvantages:
>
> (1) Swing radius has to be addressed for dock/marina
> (2) Cost (higher) until fabrication assembly methods
> improve.
> (3) removal for storage or maintenance difficult on
> larger vessels.
> (4) Light air starting, slower with reduced total
> sail/wing area.
>
> So clever means minimize the disadvantages.... like
> cost due to
> assembly and controlling weight while maintaining
> robustness.
>
> Disadvantage (1) and (3) are insignificant for the
> smaller
> performance boats. Light air starting is
> problematic. Competition
> boats do it with flaps which adds, weight, cost, and
> complication.
> That's where you have to balance all of it which has
> frustrated many
> and places extremely serious competitors way out of
> the affordability
> bracket. Of course the same applies to high tech
> sail material,
> carbon rigs and such. Just where do you draw the
> line ?
>
> Real fun can be made with less, just how to evaluate
> competitions
> between rigs of all flavors (and cost).
>
> JT
>
> --- In harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au, Kenneth
> Hernemalm
> <hernemalm@y...> wrote:
> >
> > "Wings for the masses"
> > - I like that! Nice link - shadotec - too. thanks.
> >
> > About reaching satisfactory balance, I am thinking
> > that the wing design might not have to be that
> much
> > more clever than 'past experiments'.
> >
> > Why?
> > Because leisure crafts, and even most racers, are
> > mostly too heavy, too draggy to enjoy any
> significant
> > advantage from a fixed wing rig, considering cost
> etc.
> > But on a lightweight,low drag elementarry/modern
> > pacific or atlantic proa, a rigid wing would
> really
> > make a difference.
> >
> > At 10 knots Elementarry has probably only half the
> > drag of a planing skiff having the same weight,
> hence
> > it only needs half the sail area to achieve same
> > speed. A cat or a tri, having the same weight
> would
> > have less waterline length, also resulting in more
> > drag.
> >
> > Half sail area/foil area means a lot to parameters
> > like cost, weight, mass counterbalance etc.
> >
> > I think a fixed wing, designed to be cheap and
> > sturdy,could do very nicely on Elementarry and be
> > totally in the line of "Harry" thinking of
> reducing
> > forces by reducing complexity.
> >
> > just my 2 cents ...
> >
> > /Kenneth
> >
> >
> > --- jjtctaylor <jtaylor412@c...> skrev:
> >
> > > Kenneth,
> > >
> > > The novelty is making it work efficiently and
> safely
> > > beyond a single
> > > prototype design. Wings for the masses. That
> means
> > > durability,
> > > weight aloft, mass counterbalance, rudder
> response
> > > and an assortment
> > > of "other" details has kept wings out of the
> > > mainstream for decades.
> > >
> >
> > > There are engineered choices to be made, but
> > > challenge remains cost,
> > > weight, and robustness. So far none have
> reached a
> > > satisfatcory
> > > balance to go to market. Therefore the wing
> design
> > > has to be clever
> > > or better than past experiments.
> >
> > >
> > === message truncated ===
> >
> >
> > Bästa hälsningar
> >
> > Kenneth Hernemalm
> >
> > om du vill ringa finns jag på 0701-593302 eller
> 031-552121
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
Bästa hälsningar
Kenneth Hernemalm
om du vill ringa finns jag på 0701-593302 eller 031-552121
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