Subject: [harryproa] Re: Schooner v. Unariglike
From: "brag_rotor" <>
Date: 12/16/2006, 5:03 PM

Hi Rob,

Been busy catching up on the group archive - nearly 1/3 of the
way through all posts now, plus am lurking on the forum when the
connection allows. Hope this effort is not too far to
the edge of topic....

The Wyliecat 44 is interesting technically, but according to the
test article at:

it is a 44-foot snail.

Well that's not exactly what they say, but they do give some numbers
which are seriously unimpressive in our view:

"Upwind our speeds were 7.7 to 8 knots by GPS in 16 to 20 knots of
true wind speed. Estimating current effects, the "made good" tacking
angles looked to be well inside 90 degrees.
Off the wind this boat scooted right along, hitting 12 knots easily on
the GPS......"

You may well have had poor experiences with Wharrams, and some of them
can indeed be dogs - usually the older designs and those with monohull
rigs &/or sails or maybe sailors. So we forgive your comment (*years*
ago) about Wharrams sailing at 50% of wind speed. <grin>
Some do, but not all.

Our home built Tiki 30 has been banging to windward at 70% of wind
speed for years and putting 90 degree tacks on the GPS plot at the
same time. When we bear away this boat will go to 110% of wind speed
reliably under plain sail, 120% in good conditions and has seen 130%
once. There is a major contribution from the beautifully crafted main
& genoa made by Jeckells in HydraNet.

Instrumentation used was hand held windmeters at around 8 feet above
the sea surface and a trio of GPS sets - at various times and places.
So we are under-reading the masthead wind velocity by an unknown
amount - depends on the local boundary layer development.

Boat bragging is a fine art, but there is evidence. We took a lot of
stick for making these claims publicly 7 years back, and have made
good with each individual who has come aboard with test gear and a
sceptical attitude - my condition is that they help clean the bottoms
before we go out! Helps eliminate joy-riders. Two of our critics are
building their own Tiki 30s, and two others bought plans. All of them
took the helm with silly grins on their faces eventually - but not
nearly as silly as our grins!

So a boat that needs something approaching twice the wind of a Wharram
to travel at 12 knots may not have their mast built down to weight,
however elegantly it flexes. May just be a lack of sail area - I
can't find a number in the article or on their website. In which
case the mast structure may be a limiting factor on the boat?

Great to know what Wylie do. But their boat design does not command
my respect nearly as much as their marketing prose.

I would also question whether an admittedly narrow monohull represents
a sufficiently similar base to a multihull, especially a HarryProa.
The moment of inertia of the hull system in the roll axis must be
massive compared with a narrow mono, even one with a huge leadmine
below. I guess that's what Wylie imply by a 'high ballast ratio'.

So gust loads in the mast are *much* less likely to be moderated by
heeling in a Harry, I would think? Be glad to hear your view.
Mine is that I like what you do better than what they do....

Apologies for the rant!

All the best, Ben

'Pilgrim', Wharram Tiki 30, Puerto Calero de Lanzarote

--- In, "Rob Denney" <proa@...> wrote:
> It would be useful if we could find out the exact specs used on
the freestanding carbon masts at Wyliecat ( )
because they've had the chance to test them for a while. The Wyliecat
spars would be more equivalent to those used on the harryproas than
the stayed rotating wingmasts one normally sees.
> Certainly would! If not the exact specs, any of the dimensions or
weight wopuld be nice. I have tried but Tom Wiley is not a computer
person, does not have email. Ted van Deusen, who builds the masts
using a gigantic braiding machine has not been very forthcoming either.

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