Subject: RE: [harryproa] Reducing sail with boom out over the water.
From:
Date: 3/8/2007, 7:07 AM
To:
Reply-to:
harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au

Hi Doug,
 
It was an I in exclamation marks which looked a bit like a T. The top and bottom flanges would be the same. It could still be bonded to the pipe with wraps of tow fanning along the flanges and around the pipe. 
True, I beams are not great at resisting torsion but if you set up your sheets correctly there wouldn't be much. I recently made a number of 4m booms for a production racing swing keel monohull. We had a lot of trouble with the boom bending sideways due to strange torsional loads but solved it by connecting the sheet to a webbing loop around the end of the boom. The sheet was tied to a 'D' ring so it could slide around and hey presto, no torsion, no bending. 
Schionning uses 'I' beam booms on their Radical Bay with success.
 
Mark
 
...................................
Mark Stephens
www.harryproa.com
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au [mailto:harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au] On Behalf Of Doug Haines
Sent: Thursday, 8 March 2007 9:15 PM
To: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au
Subject: RE: [harryproa] Reducing sail with boom out over the water.

Hi Mark,

Noticing your symbol is diffrent to a regular "T" in this email.
Is that an I (upper case I supposed to be) beam with a longer top flange and shorter bottom flange.
I'm not bothered as long as it is light and strong. It does need to bond to the pipe that's round the stub, so I was thinking the rectangular box.
The booms in my factory are all triangular.
As Rob said twist is a \factor that I beams aren't as good as boxes.
Doug

mark@harryproa.com wrote:

Rather than making a box boom you could consider an 'I' beam boom. This is much simpler as it doesn't require closing off, just a top and bottom plate and a vertical web. Th e uni carbon or glass can be laid flat on the plates with double bias on the web to take shear loads. Hardware can be bolted through easily, lazy jacks can be tied at the bottom by drilling holes in the top plate. Wish I had thought of it before making the 4 Elementarry box booms :>(.
 
Let us know if you want to go that way and we'll send you details.
 
Mark
...................................
Mark Stephens
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au [mailto:harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au] On Behalf Of Doug Haines
Sent: Tuesday, 27 February 2007 9:16 PM
To: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au
Subject: Re: [harryproa] Reducing sail with boom out over the water.

Thanks Rob,

I have had some fun trying to put a reef in while on the water - sailing the booms round inboard, dropping sails and pulling booms inboard, and sliding out along the hull to tie sails!

Doing it from at the mast is a necessity.

Doug

 



 



Rob Denney <proa@iinet.net.au> wrote:
G'day,
 
Experimenting going ok.  Will be sailing tomorrow, all going well.
 
Glad the job is interesting, although it sounds like a bit too much effort for me!
 
The sail can be dropped with the boom anywhere, as long as the sheet is released so it aligns with the breeze.  The lazy jacks keep it in place, reefs don't need to be tied in.  Vis sail does not flake into the boom, is a bit of work to get it flaked and the cover on.  Not sure about harry as I have not sailed on it yet. 
 
The open boom is pretty complex to make, and the benefit on a little boat is negligible.  I would stick with the box and the lazy jacks. 
 
regards,
 
Rob
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 8:11 AM
Subject: [harryproa] Reducing sail with boom out over the water.

Hello (Rob),

How's experimenting?
I'm busy with this new job - interesting, learnt how to get that mirror finish on the paint job (it's sanding again after painting 1200 grit floowied by polishing compound!)  and other proffessional tricks of the trade
I wanted to ask about reefing/dropping sails:
On the Harry/Visionarries,  can the mainsail  be dropped with the boom angled out over the water? Is this possible due to the lazy jacks and the hollow built into the boom?
When reefed does the sail flaked in the boom need ties to hold it in?
So therefore is this what I'd need to build for Elementarry?

Doug






brag_rotor <brag_rotor@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi Doug,

It bundles up in a civilised fashion the luff just concertinas - with
reef points you an make it all neat and tidy, but the only critical
attachment is at the clew, where we use a light line to haul it all
together for the mainsheet changeover. There's a second 'snap
shackle' on the mainsheet for that purpose. We make those out of rope
and save £32 a time.....

Photo of a reefed Wharram schooner here:-

http://www.wharram.eu/photos/index.cgi?mode=image&album=/Tiki-range/Tiki-38&image=040605%20018.jpg

Packing the sail into its cover can be fun if you are single handed,
but I can do it OK. Just wrap the sail around the gaff as
best you can, apply the gaskets or bunjees, and heave the cover on,
being careful not to make the sail too lumpy to fit.

This looks a very neat setup:-
http://www.wharram.eu/photos/index.cgi?mode=image&a lbum=/Tiki-range/Tiki-30&image=DSC02289.JPG

But I suspect his sail material is half the weight of ours, and a lot
more malleable. Heavy duty HydraNet is a beast to furl, but we went
for its toughness and total lack of stretch. This means that we do
not worry about stretching the sails out of shape due to reefing, and
they didn't - even in a Biscay gale. Boilerplate sails.

Only bagging the sail single handed is any sort of tussle, anyway.
That's partly because the bag has to be tight to avoid flutter. Our
sail has lived in its bag since .... ummm .... 1999 I think. Just
hose it down and do some sewing on the odd seam once or twice a year.

Here's another neat one, without a sail cover:-
http://www.wharram.eu/photos/index.cgi?mode=image&album=/Tiki-range/Tiki-21&image=Tiki-21-Greece-1.JPG

Gives you a chance to see how it's been furled. They are no hassle,
in our experience.

A bit off topic, one of Steve Turner's clients wanted a Tiki without
the 'old fashioned' rig, and had Steve build him one of his GRP boats
with a full-on 25% oversize battened bermudan rig, no expense spared,
so Steve and the gang then had a chance to sail it against a standard
production boat.

Interestingly the standard boat had the advantage everywhere, except
downwind - 25% more sail area made a difference there. So one might be
tempted to assume that the Wharram Tiki Wingsail had around 25% more
drive to windward/on a reach than the fully battened bermudan...?

Reason that I mention this is that I found a photo of what may be that
boat when I was looking for furled/reefed sails....

http://www.wharram.eu/photos/index.cgi?mode=image&album=/Tiki-range/Tiki-21&image=Tiki%2021%20Multiscavi%202.JPG
Might be a different boat, who knows. Not an improvement in our
experience.

All the best, Ben

--- In harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au, Doug Haines <doha720@...> wrote:
>
> HI,
>
> How does the sail fold up at the sleeve when you reef or take the
sail down?
>
> Doug
>


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