What if you had a simple system to raise and lower the boards/rudders(
and string)? Then you should have nearly infinte adjustment of balance. I'm
thinking I'm sailing along with a little more weather helm than I'd like,
uncleat the line holding the forward rudder down, the bungee raises it 6
inches, cleat and off we go with perfect balance. Short tacking don't bother,
but cruisers don't do a lot of that anyway.
The label on the Kiribati canoe said it was a racing model boat so maybe it
only went one way. The display on Polynesian canoe was interesting but
superficial.
My proa is supposed to look like this
http://www.clcboats
The plan is still to do Harry ASAP (once this one is finished), but my wife
liked the cabin/galley on Visionarry and wants that instead. All I can see is
another years work before I can go sailing.
Mark suggested harry with a longer LW hull, made sense to me. Really like the
one sail rig if it would work on the larger boat. You were right ,one mast is
much easier to build than two. If we did Visionarry i would want to make it as
small/minimalist as possible, one engine, loose the dinghy ramp, no
fridge/freezer, no fitted head....... What else could we take away from the
boat?
Cheers
David
------ Original Message ------
Received: Sun, 08 Apr 2007 12:11:04 AM MDT
From: "Rob Denney" <proa@iinet.net.
To: <harryproa@yahoogrou
Subject: Re: [harryproa] More musings
G'day,
Not sure, but there is no reason why it shouldn't work, although the ability
to weight shift on Harry and Elementarry is not to be forgotten. Once the
boats are moving, the rudders can handle large balance misalignments. Any
problems will show up during shunts. The way round this is to luff head to
wind prior to shunting. When the boat stops, rotate the rudders, then sheet
on again. As the sail fills, the boat will luff and by the time it gets to
hard on the wind on the new tack, it should be going quick enough for the
rudders to work.
kiribati canoe looks very similar to the Texel boat! Wonder what they did on
the other shunt/tack?
Your proa looks good, are there any dimensions or plans anywhere? Which hull
are you putting the rig on? ;-)
regards,
Rob
----- Original Message -----
From: David Howie
To: harryproa@yahoogrou
Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 5:11 AM
Subject: Re: [harryproa] More musings
I could live with that if the performance was better. What happens if you
scale it up to Harry or Visionarry size? What about balance?
PS Took the family to see the proas at Ak museum, found one from Kiribati
identical to your Texel racer. Got photos, will send to you direct
------ Original Message ------
Received: Sat, 07 Apr 2007 06:20:36 AM MDT
From: "Rob Denney" <proa@iinet.net.
To: <harryproa@yahoogrou
Subject: Re: [harryproa] More musings
G'day,
Downsides are it is harder to move around, higher centre of effort (not a
down
side in light air) and harder to right after a capsize.
regards,
Rob
----- Original Message -----
From: David Howie
To: harryproa@yahoogrou
Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2007 5:24 AM
Subject: Re: [harryproa] More musings
I'd be interested in seeing the same area in the cat rig with a taller
mast/longer foot - is that feasible? Is there a downside?
David
------ Original Message ------
Received: Fri, 06 Apr 2007 06:18:39 AM MDT
From: "Rob Denney" <proa@iinet.net.
To: <harryproa@yahoogrou
Subject: Re: [harryproa] More musings
If the area is the same, it will be near enough as powerful.
regards,
Rob
----- Original Message -----
From: Doug Haines
To: harryproa@yahoogrou
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2007 7:41 PM
Subject: Re: [harryproa] More musings
Do you think that raising mast height and lengthening boom a bit, and
adding
the easy-rig too, can provide a similar amount of pwer?
Rob Denney <proa@iinet.net.
G'day,
This was comparing the results from sailing solo. With 2 crew, the
schooner would have been better.
regards,
Rob
---- Original Message -----
From: Doug Haines
To: harryproa@yahoogrou
Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 5:11 PM
Subject: Re: [harryproa] More musings
"Performance and ease of sailing improved markedly. Top speed was 18.5
knots and it points as high as the Tornados, although we it is not as quick
upwind. "
>From Rob Denney.
Single mast compared to two speed increased?
Rob Denney <proa@iinet.net.
----- Original Message -----
From: Douglas Alexander Frnk Haines
To: harryproa@yahoogrou
Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 7:23 PM
Subject: [harryproa] More musings
First off, I was enjoying having two nice hobies coming by when I
noticed that I had veered towards the channel marker. Steering
either
way didn't do much and the pointy green starboard marker made a
nice
foot long rip hal way up the forward sail.
Nevermind.
I've realised that some of Rob's comments apply to his own plans
for
sailing and they differ a little from my plans. I've been seeing
what
I need to cruise along the coast. Maneouvrability is a let down.
The
basis of speed and long thin hull is firmly fixed, and all I can
see
to steer better is moving rudders aft. I appreciate now that
perhaps
Rob was looking ahead to his transpac boat and long distance
racing.
It seemed easier to me to build at the time so I copied his beam
mounted rudder idea. Now I am wondering how to get them back a bit.
There is no easy way to move them aft. You will need to get inside
the lee hull to strengthen it up. My boat steers well with a rudder on the
beam, except at low speeds, when it tends to go sideways faster then it
turns.
However, at low speeds, if anything is in the way. reverse the sails and go
backwards for another shot. OR, better, move your weight forward, which
gives
the boat something to turn around.
As for the schooner rig, well it seems sensible, lowering centre of
effort and transfering loads directly at the beams. Trying to sail
it
on your own though is a diffrent matter. Now Rob (and Mark), report
speed INCREASING USING ONE SAIL. (wHAT IS A hARRYPROA WITH ONE MAST
OR
SAIL? aA UNITARY). Watching both sails is confusing, especially at
high speeds, tight navigation, tired etc. I would attribute some
speed
gain to accurate angling. Again I'm thinking about myself and maybe
a
racing pair could work two sails (comments Rob?, eg. photos shown
at
Coffs Harb).
Unitarry is good. Speed does not increase with one sail which is
half the size of two sails, except in big breeze. Two sails are great, but
hard work solo, particularly if the boat is not set up for it..
Good note, is that reducing stiffness in battens improved sail
shape
today. Rudder blades also sanded/polished smoothe seem to go better
and avoid seaweed snags better, must be slipping off to the side.
Question - what is your sail luff and foot lengths going to be Rob?
And is the rope better than slugs for sail shape?
The foot will stay at 2m, not sure how much higher. The rope is
theoretiucally better (seals the gap), but for cruising, slugs are much
superior as the sail can be left on the boom and does not blow around when
lowered.
Hope to be down for the first multiple harryproa sailing event this
weekend.
regards,
Rob
Doug
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