Sorry for stepping on toes. I deleted my files . Just want to put
them up briefly to get some feed back thanks.
I have heard about the bolger rig causing some problems but think
its more of inexperience issue (taking the time to figure out how to
use the rig) than the rig itself. I think with the wing ribs solidly
attached to center spar allowing the entire sail to rotate
uniformily will allow better control. On the model when shunting the
rig passes through a nuetral area midship producing no lift or
driving force until nudged foward or sail is trimmed with leading
edge in just a bit. Working on a less complicated reefing system
than like on the Maltese Falcon. Also experimenting with setting AOA
of wing to a neutral position and just moving A frame alone adding
positive or nagetive Angle of attack, having seperate adjustments
for triming sail for fine tuning and not having sheets or lines at
all.
Hopfully building the movable A frame. The rig strength and weight
will be relative to building the same strength into a single none
stayed mast. Although the forces are distributed through mast,
frame , base, and stays working as one united the diameters of frame
will be smaller. So extreme beefi'ness and unwanted weight might
not be needed. If not than drag may be a concern. Weight of the rig
is some what centralized and distributed between the two hulls for
and aft and side to side so weight is not concentrated in one
location. I don't see weight being an issue. Except for extreme over
building. But yet to be determined. Going to build a 16footer using
a hull I have already for the leeward float. If the new reefing rig
idea works.
Still curious as to what happens when boards are pulled up on El
when sailing?
Todd
--- In harryproa@yahoogrou
>
> Steering is crucial as the sheet may be jammed or cleated. Some
of the ideas on the ww steering boat are not mine. When the owner
is ready, we will let you know.
>
> The Dynawing looks cool, but would be hard to shunt in a big
breeze. These rigs have been tried on proas (Bolger rig, AYRS rig)
but shunting in a breeze always ends the experiment. With a
movable fore and aft rig, the steering and leeway resistance can be
anywhere. However, the beefing up required for a rig that is
movable will be more than if it is stationery. Controlling it full
size may also be a problem.
>
> regards,
>
> Rob
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Todd
> To: harryproa@yahoogrou
> Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2007 2:26 AM
> Subject: [harryproa] Re: Rudders on lee hull only
>
>
> I don't really see how steering is crucial when flying a hull.
When
> I think about when a hull flys and the points of sail that it
would
> most likely happen, steering could end in catastrophe. With
proper
> balance when hull flys the boat shouldn't change course so
> drastically and just settle with a eased sheet. Just my thought
> anyway.
>
> I'm going to test the kick up rudders on windward hull rear down
> front up and sweeping dagger board on middle of lee hull with
model
> just to see if its feasible.
>
> Tell us what your windward steering is on your new drawing .
Come
> on share, Whats with the holding back:)
>
> Todd
>
>
> -- In harryproa@yahoogrou
> >
> > G'day,
> >
> > El is the test bed and it flies a hull. So may the big ones,
and
> if they do, steerage is critical. The ratios for weight to
windward
> vary, and you are right, it is not a major concern. They work
very
> well where they are, so at this stage I have not seen the need
to
> experiment with athwartships location.
> >
> > regards,
> >
> > Rob
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Todd
> > To: harryproa@yahoogrou
> > Sent: Friday, April 13, 2007 1:03 PM
> > Subject: [harryproa] Re: Rudders on lee hull only
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I was thinking your elementary was your test bed for the
larger
> > boats. Which I thought were not designed to fly windward hull.
> What
> > are your ratio's for weight to windward I must be
> misunderstanding
> > your concept.
> >
> > I was curious since the trimarans would normally load leeward
> float
> > along with main hull and have the main steering on the main
hull
> yes
> > I know they do have smaller stearing blades on the floats.
Since
> > your bigger boats don't fly windward hulls and have a similar
> load
> > to what the tri has, curious to find out if it would have same
> input
> > characteristics having main steering appendages on a shorter
> loaded
> > windward hull.
> >
> > I'm finding out with the eql model that it is more weight
> sensitive
> > with weight placed on the windward hull than the leeward hull
> > meaning if I place enough weight to the rear on windward hull
it
> > will fall off the wind bear away, but both hull and float are
> the
> > same length. I have to try with the board on the windward hull
> minus
> > weight.
> >
> > Todd
> >
> > --- In harryproa@yahoogrou
wrote:
> > >
> > > G'day,
> > >
> > > No, for the following reasons;
> > > 1 They would lift out of the water if the hull flew
> > > 2) Their drag would increase weather helm. weather helm is
not
> a
> > problem on harrys so this may not be a valid reason any more.
> > > 3) I don't like all the weight in the windward hull, except
> for
> > racing. Racing implies lifting the ww hull, see 1.
> > > 4) I have had enough trouble getting lee hull rudders to
work
> > without starting on new sets of rudder problems.
> > >
> > > Despite all the above, the rudders on my Elementarry are
> getting
> > closer to amidships and I drew a Little America's Cup proa
with
> > rudders and rig in the ww hull. Huge rm (lack of rm is a
problem
> > with these boats) but prone to windward capsize unless the
crew
> were
> > very good.
> > >
> > > We are about to launch a 6m proa with a pretty radical
> approach to
> > windward hull steering. Keep an eye on the web page for pics
and
> > progress. If it works (pretty big if), it will change a lot of
> > preconceptions about proa steering.
> > >
> > > regards,
> > >
> > > Rob
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Todd
> > > To: harryproa@yahoogrou
> > > Sent: Friday, April 13, 2007 12:28 AM
> > > Subject: [harryproa] Rudders on lee hull
> > >
> > >
> > > Rob, Have you ever experimented with just the rudders on the
> > windward
> > > hull?
> > >
> > > Or dagger board in center on leeward hull and rudders on
ends
> of
> > > windward hull?
> > >
> > > Or any other configuration ?
> > >
> > > Todd
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------
> > -----------
> > >
> > >
> > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.18.18/734 - Release
> Date:
> > 3/26/2007
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------
> -----------
> >
> >
> > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.18.18/734 - Release
Date:
> 3/26/2007
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------
-----------
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.4.0/759 - Release Date:
4/12/2007 7:58 PM
>
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