Subject: [harryproa] Re: Tons of questions |
From: "oceanplodder2003" <dana-tenacity@usa.net> |
Date: 4/1/2008, 3:14 AM |
To: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au |
Reply-to: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au |
Hi Rob,
Reports on my three outings so far with photos and some video here:
http://www.crew.
Interesting drawings, but I'm still sold on Visionarry (I'm assuming
that can be adapted for KSS?).
I'm suffering terribly , I want to start building it yesterday, but
the economy here is going down the gurgler almost as fast as in the
US. My website is going really well , but my wife has two retail shops
(women's dresses) and is feeling the pinch.
In the meantime I've promised younger daughter I'll do a strip plank
kayak for her this winter, know anything about them?
Sailing the proa is a revelation. Yes it's fast (not as fast as the
old A Class cat), but utterly effortless, you'll see in one of the
photos I'm lying on the tramp with the tiller in my toes, I' have done
that at 15kn. And I'll never go back to a stayed mast.
I readily accept that your boats are safer, faster, more comfortable
and hopefully cheaper than anything else available.
Cheers
David
--- In harryproa@yahoogrou
>
> G'day,
>
> Thanks for the rendering offer, I will send you the files.
>
> Wing mast bearings on the floor and deck. Lighter, easier to build
> and you are able to access the bearings. The rig is much stiffer.
> Needs a collar to keep the water out, but this is no big deal. Only
> time I would use a stub mast is if it was going on a flat deck or if
> overall length was an issue for trailering, as yours might be.
>
> Looking forward to see what Yana comes up with! Yana is Youri and
> Myriam's (Wangka boats, builders of the glitziest harryproa ever, a
> super light, all bells and whistles elementarry) daughter, studying
> web design and kindly having a look at what can be improved on the web
> page. I have a web lesson on Friday, so the update is not far away.
>
> Jim and Oceanplodder, renderings sent, but i would like to wait until
> we get the real thing from Youri, and i write some decent blurb before
> sending it to any web or paper publications. Op, where is the video of
> your proa sailing?
>
> Regards,
>
> Rob
>
> On Tue, Apr 1, 2008 at 12:57 PM, Myriam & Youri <youri@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Rob,
> >
> > we can take care of renderings ...
> >
> > Do you prefer wingmast/stubmast bearings on the foot/deck level or
> > a fixed stubmast with a wingmast rotating about it ...
> >
> > Yana is working on the webpages ... you will hear soon about it
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Myriam & Youri
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, 2008-04-01 at 11:12 +0800, Rob Denney wrote:
> > > G'day,
> > >
> > > The visibility to windward comes from having the cabin floor lower
> > > than the rest of the bridgedeck, which means you can stand up
on the
> > > bridgedeck and see over the saloon even though it has full standing
> > > headroom. There is no slamming as it is always the windward hull.
> > > The lower roof also reduces windage and gives it a sleeker look
from
> > > the windward side.
> > >
> > > The cantilevered roof over the helmsman is the width of the solid
> > > walkway and is carried all the way to the lee hull. The roof is a
> > > foot higher than the cabin roof with a windshield on the
windward end
> > > so the helsman is protected, but can see over the hull. At anchor,
> > > roll down clears make this an extension of the cabin.
> > >
> > > On Tue, Apr 1, 2008 at 2:16 AM, Gardner Pomper
> > > <gardner@...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > That sounds really exciting. Any chance I can get some
sketches or
> > > > renderings? I am particularly interested on how you keep the
windage
> > > down
> > > > and still have visibility from the help to windward.
> > > >
> > > > - Gardner
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 2:09 PM, Tim Barker
> > > <clairebarker5@
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In harryproa@yahoogrou
> > > <gardner@>
> > > > > wrote:I had a look at the Maine cat ,looks very nice.
> > > > > To put the Liveaboard in perspective, the main saloon is
roughly
> > > 26
> > > > > x10.5' total with 16 x 10.5 full standing headroom the beds and
> > > toilet
> > > > > will be utilizing the sloping cabin ends as much as
possible so as
> > > to
> > > > > minimise wastage of full headroom space which still means
heaps of
> > > > > room and at the end of the day whats going to sail better a
30ft
> > > cat
> > > > > or a 50ft proa that only costs as much to build as the cat
(maybe
> > > > > slight exageration)
> > > > > cheers Tim
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I am very curious about this design. If you are at all
familiar
> > > with
> > > > > > the Maine Cat 30, the best feature is that it has an open
> > > bridgedeck
> > > > > > that is 8x11'. You spend all your time above. The only reason
> > > you go
> > > > > > below decks is the head, the galley and the bunks.
Instead of an
> > > > > > enclosed salon, it has plastics that zip down, protecting you
> > > from the
> > > > > > weather when you need it, but being completely open most
of the
> > > time.
> > > > > > I love that feel. There is a hardtop, but windage is kept
down
> > > because
> > > > > > you usually have the plastics open in the tropics. Just close
> > > them for
> > > > > > rain or heavy seas.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you go here: http://www.mecat.
click on
> > > > > > MECAT30 on the left, you will see what I mean.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I feel like the proa has that potential. I am wrestling with
> > > trying to
> > > > > > figure out how to go from the Visionarry layout to an open
> > > bridgedeck
> > > > > > layout. I don't want a high walled saloon with all the
windage,
> > > but I
> > > > > > also don't want to sleep and use the head out in the open.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > - Gardner
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In harryproa@yahoogrou
> > > <clairebarker5@
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In harryproa@yahoogrou
> > > <gardner@>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi Gardener
> > > > > > > Im the one Robs refering to re the family of four
> > > liveaboard.For us
> > > > > > > it wasnt so much a question of carrying capacity as living
> > > space for
> > > > > > > your dollar. With the proa design within reason you can
> > > enclose or
> > > > > > > make available a fair amount of space and the quality
of the
> > > space
> > > > > > > seems to be greater than on a comparable cat ,this in
> > > reference to the
> > > > > > > separation of the sailing/living areas.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The whole philosophy behind the initial approach to Rob was
> > > for a
> > > > > > > craft where the hulls were just that hulls, not living
space,
> > > no need
> > > > > > > to line them ,whatever would fit in them fine but to resist
> > > the
> > > > > > > temptation at all costs to "add just a bit" more room
below.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > We could put some sleeping accom below, the ww hulls wide
> > > enough but
> > > > > > > the minuite you do that(and after seeing the space i was
> > > tempted to )
> > > > > > > youve just pushed the snowball off the edge and its rolling
> > > down hill
> > > > > > > getting bigger heavier and more complex. Keep it simple
and on
> > > one
> > > > > > > level and as i said before no lining,no hiding
piping/cabling
> > > no doors
> > > > > > > ,no windows just tankage and storage in the ww hull = a
> > > quicker
> > > > > > > cheaper build, and for me thats a biggie .
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Having said that add a bit more time and money
(probably not
> > > that
> > > > > > > much) and you can fit out the hull for sleeping but at the
> > > cost of
> > > > > > > living space above. But for us here in the tropics it was
> > > about
> > > > > > > haveing an open plan where the lines between the saloon
area
> > > and the
> > > > > > > tramp/ deck area blurred and with the addition of shade
became
> > > one
> > > > > > > large living area.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Plus having the scooner rig in the lw hull allows for a
couple
> > > of
> > > > > > > reasonable single sleepers and or storage.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I think this design could be a lot of things to a lot of
> > > people and
> > > > > > > maybe addresses a lot of the percieved space limitations
> > > continually
> > > > > > > thrown up in cat/ proa comparisons .
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Cheers Tim
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I got the renderings of the charter version. In that
> > > message, you
> > > > > > > > mentioned that you were doing a 50' version for a
family of
> > > 4
> > > > > > > > liveaboard. I think that sounds very much what I have in
> > > mind. The
> > > > > > > > Visionarry is also considered a 50', correct? Because the
> > > payload
> > > > > > > > capacity there is aproximately what I think I need,
although
> > > I have
> > > > > > > > not added up the exact weights of a stove/oven and
> > > > > fridge/freezer. If
> > > > > > > > there is anything you can send me on that, it would be
> > > great. We
> > > > > > > > travel pretty light, in that we has fun on a 30' cat
with a
> > > 2000lb
> > > > > > > > payload, so I think a 3700-4000 lb payload would be
ok with
> > > us.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Essentially, I have questions on being able to afford the
> > > larger
> > > > > > > > version, and we will be just a couple, with
(hopefully) many
> > > guests,
> > > > > > > > 2-4 at a time. I would like to be able to singlehand
and the
> > > > > schooner
> > > > > > > > rig concerns me for that.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Back to general questions:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Has something been written up on all the actions to be
> > > performed
> > > > > when
> > > > > > > > shunting? I have seen the video of the elementary,
but in a
> > > larger
> > > > > > > > version (Visonarry, or equivalent), how exactly are the
> > > rudders
> > > > > > > > switch? Do you have to "switch" the wheels, or just walk
> > > around
> > > > > to the
> > > > > > > > otherh side and start using the 2nd wheel? What about
> > > > > motorsailing? I
> > > > > > > > know it has been mentioned that you don't, but the
> > > Intracoastal
> > > > > on the
> > > > > > > > east coast of the US has many areas where you can sail,
> > > interspersed
> > > > > > > > with short switchbacks that make it difficult. We have
> > > always
> > > > > liked to
> > > > > > > > keep the sails up when when have to suffer through these.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I am also confused about how the lines run to the
mast. With
> > > the
> > > > > mast
> > > > > > > > rotating 360 degrees, I would think that the lines
just wind
> > > up
> > > > > around
> > > > > > > > the mast. Is there just a single "boom sheet" for each
> > > direction you
> > > > > > > > sail? The halyards tie off to the boom or mast?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thanks very much for all the time you are taking to
answer
> > > > > questions.
> > > > > > > > I had looked a proas before but until I saw your
designs I
> > > never
> > > > > took
> > > > > > > > them seriously. Now they look REALLY good.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > - Gardner
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In harryproa@yahoogrou
> > > <harryproa@>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > G'day,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 9:11 PM, gardner.pomper
<gardner@>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the quick reply. Let me give you a brief
> > > background
> > > > > > > to put
> > > > > > > > > > my questions into context.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > snip
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > When I came across the harryproa, the Visionarry
seems
> > > like
> > > > > > it has
> > > > > > > > > > enough payload capacity for a cruising
couple/liveaboard
> > > > > > (although
> > > > > > > > > > more is better). We are not adventurers; we are
looking
> > > for a
> > > > > > > coastal
> > > > > > > > > > cruiser/island hopper for North and South America and
> > > the
> > > > > > > caribbean.
> > > > > > > > > > So, my questions here are primarily focused on
> > > Visionarry.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > - I am assuming the empty weight is completely empty?
> > > Does it
> > > > > > > include
> > > > > > > > > > "built ins" like the stove, fridge, batteries? What
> > > about the
> > > > > > > sails?
> > > > > > > > > > (Mast is included, hopefully). What about engines?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Empty weight includes everything required to go for
a sail
> > > except
> > > > > > > > > safety gear. No built ins or motors, but mast
sails, boom
> > > > > > rudders etc.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > - I can't picture what the saloon is really like.
Do you
> > > have
> > > > > > > any 2D
> > > > > > > > > > layout drawings (like for the harryproa) that I
can look
> > > at? We
> > > > > > > > really
> > > > > > > > > > loved the 8x11' open bridgedeck on the Maine Cat,
and I
> > > am
> > > > > > > concerned
> > > > > > > > > > that you can't walk from the galley to the wheel
without
> > > > > > > dropping the
> > > > > > > > > > table in the saloon. I am thinking about carving a
> > > simple model
> > > > > > > > out of
> > > > > > > > > > balsa wood to get the dimensions in my head.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The saloon in Rare Bird is a bit cramped, but does the
> > > job. The
> > > > > > table
> > > > > > > > > does not prevent access to the wheel. I will
forward the
> > > > > > dimensions.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > - Can a stove with an oven be fitted? This was
almost a
> > > deal
> > > > > > > breaker
> > > > > > > > > > on the Maine Cat, as the designer did not want to add
> > > one,
> > > > > but he
> > > > > > > > > > managed and the people who know the boats say it
was one
> > > of the
> > > > > > > best
> > > > > > > > > > additions.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > No problem.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > - What about storage? Other than the cabinets
along the
> > > hull
> > > > > > in the
> > > > > > > > > > galley, where do you put everything?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Visionarry was not designed to be a live aboard, or
even
> > > an
> > > > > extended
> > > > > > > > > cruiser. Rare Bird was modified to make it the
latter, but
> > > it
> > > > > does
> > > > > > > > > not have huge amounts of storage space for living
aboard.
> > > > > This is a
> > > > > > > > > good way of keeping the weight down, but won't impress
> > > your wife!
> > > > > > > > > There is huge amounts of space in the lee hull but
this is
> > > not
> > > > > > > > > readily accessible. There are layout options to
increase
> > > the
> > > > > > storage
> > > > > > > > > space, which I am happy to discuss, but if you want all
> > > the
> > > > > comforts
> > > > > > > > > of home and performance, then the bigger boat is a
better
> > > bet..
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > - My wife is concerned about the loss of privacy
between
> > > a proa
> > > > > > > and a
> > > > > > > > > > cat. I have seen you mention a charter proa you have
> > > > > > designed. Are
> > > > > > > > > > sketches available for that? What do you expect the
> > > relative
> > > > > > build
> > > > > > > > > > cost to be between teh Visionarry and the charter?
> > > Double?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > It should be closer to half for the basic structure and
> > > fit out.
> > > > > > The
> > > > > > > > > build method is quicker, the materials cheaper
(although
> > > there are
> > > > > > > > > more of them) and it will be built in a low labour
> > > location.
> > > > > > The fit
> > > > > > > > > out of the saloon and ww hull is also simpler and
quicker.
> > > The
> > > > > > > > > cabins are as private as they are on a cat, but the
ones
> > > in the ww
> > > > > > > > > hull are much more user friendly with walk around beds,
> > > more floor
> > > > > > > > > space, better light and ventilation and at the same
level
> > > as the
> > > > > > > > > bridgedeck, with easier access to it.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I have seen you offer to email sketches on other
groups.
> > > If
> > > > > > you are
> > > > > > > > > > willing to, my email is gardner@
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Will do. Anyone else wanting them, let me know.
They are
> > > not of
> > > > > > > > > particularly high standard as they are for discussion
> > > purposes
> > > > > only,
> > > > > > > > > but will give you an idea of what is possible. They
will
> > > be
> > > > > on the
> > > > > > > > > web page real soon now ........
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Now I am off to book a trip to Maine <grin> to
check out
> > > the
> > > > > > > boat in
> > > > > > > > > > Rock Harbor. Hopefully you will hear back from me in
> > > Sept as to
> > > > > > > > how it
> > > > > > > > > > went.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Say hello to George for me (perhaps after you have
asked
> > > all your
> > > > > > > > > questions, in case he still thinks we tried to rip
him off
> > > and
> > > > > sends
> > > > > > > > > you packing ;-)) and please take some photos and report
> > > back here.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > - What is the mast height off the water?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > 18m/60', although the charter boat will be a
schooner rig
> > > so a
> > > > > > > > little lower.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > regards,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Rob
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > --- In harryproa@yahoogrou
> > > <harryproa@>
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > G'day,
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Welcome to the forum. Thanks for the questions,
please
> > > keep
> > > > > > them
> > > > > > > > > > > coming. My answers follow your questions.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 10:41 AM, gardner.pomper
> > > <gardner@>
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I have been searching the net for everything
I can
> > > find
> > > > > > on the
> > > > > > > > > > > > harryproas. They look VERY interesting, but
there is
> > > very
> > > > > > > > little hard
> > > > > > > > > > > > info, so I thought this group might be the best
> > > place to
> > > > > > start.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I think that I am most interested in Visionarry,
> > > > > although it
> > > > > > > > might be
> > > > > > > > > > > > a bit above my price range, but let me start with
> > > some
> > > > > > general
> > > > > > > > > > > > questions (if i put all my questions in, the post
> > > would be
> > > > > > > > too long
> > > > > > > > > > > > for anyone to read).
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I am curious about the rotating mast. How
> > > susceptible is
> > > > > > > that to
> > > > > > > > > > > > binding, or sea salt crusting, etc? If you are
> > > subject to
> > > > > > > > alot of sea
> > > > > > > > > > > > spray and have limited fresh water, what is the
> > > maintenance
> > > > > > > > required?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Very little. The bearings are plastic outer
shells and
> > > > > > > > epoxy/graphite
> > > > > > > > > > > inner shells. Water cannot get into them as
there is a
> > > boot
> > > > > > > around
> > > > > > > > > > > the mast covering the top one. If any salt (or
grit)
> > > did
> > > > > get in
> > > > > > > > > > > there, it would probably become embedded in the
> > > plastic so no
> > > > > > > harm
> > > > > > > > > > > would be done to the mast.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Again with the mast.. none of the harryproas
seem to
> > > > > have any
> > > > > > > > safety
> > > > > > > > > > > > equipment to keep you on the boat for when
you need
> > > to reef
> > > > > > > > in heavy
> > > > > > > > > > > > seas. THat leeward hull looks pretty narrow.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > The intention is to do all mast work from the
bridge
> > > deck.
> > > > > > There
> > > > > > > > > > > should be no need to get on the lee hull deck
at all.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I am not clear on the position of the mast
when you
> > > reef.
> > > > > > Is it
> > > > > > > > > > > > pointing perpendicular to the proa? You can't
reach
> > > it
> > > > > then.
> > > > > > > > Or are
> > > > > > > > > > > > you supposed to turn the boat into the wind,
like a
> > > > > > > "normal" cat?
> > > > > > > > > > > > Doesn't that take the risk of the wind getting
> > > behind the
> > > > > > > > sail and
> > > > > > > > > > > > then the leeward hull becomes the windward hull,
> > > making the
> > > > > > > boat
> > > > > > > > > > > > easier to capsize? Can someone explain the boat
> > > handling a
> > > > > > > little
> > > > > > > > > > more?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Best way to reef is to go beam onto the seas and
> > > release the
> > > > > > > sheet.
> > > > > > > > > > > Then wind down the reef as per normal, being
careful
> > > not
> > > > > to get
> > > > > > > > hit by
> > > > > > > > > > > the boom. The boom can be sheeted so that it is
locked
> > > > > > > > athwartships,
> > > > > > > > > > > which makes this easier, and also lets the sail
act as
> > > a
> > > > > > > > weathervane,
> > > > > > > > > > > keeping the boat beam to. There is no way the
rig can
> > > be
> > > > > > > > sheeted fore
> > > > > > > > > > > and aft with the wind from the wrong side, so
> > > capsizing the
> > > > > > > > wrong way
> > > > > > > > > > > is very difficult. If this is not clear, please ask
> > > more
> > > > > > > questions.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Are there any harryproas in the water on the east
> > > coast of
> > > > > > > the US
> > > > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > > > I might actually see one in person?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > There is one in Maine that was the first one we
built
> > > > > > > > professionally.
> > > > > > > > > > > It is used as a recreational sailer and a ferry
boat
> > > for the
> > > > > > > boats
> > > > > > > > > > > anchored in Rockport Bay and is non standard (walk
> > > through
> > > > > > > windward
> > > > > > > > > > > hull, 50 hp outboard) . Second hand information is
> > > that
> > > > > it has
> > > > > > > > sailed
> > > > > > > > > > > at 15 knots in 15 knots of breeze, but that is
all I
> > > > > have. The
> > > > > > > > > > > owner has not spoken to us since we could not
meet our
> > > price
> > > > > > > > estimate,
> > > > > > > > > > > despite nearly going broke trying. he had to finish
> > > the
> > > > > > painting
> > > > > > > > > > > and some of the fitting out himself. His name is
> > > George
> > > > > > Marks. He
> > > > > > > > > > > was the harbour master at Rockport. I would be very
> > > > > > grateful for
> > > > > > > > > > > feedback from anyone who talks to him or sees the
> > > boat.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I have seen mention of a stay on the mast,
but also
> > > that
> > > > > > it is
> > > > > > > > > > > > freestanding. Is the stay optional? Can the mast
> > > still
> > > > > > > rotate 360
> > > > > > > > > > > > degrees with the stay? Are there any stops on how
> > > far the
> > > > > > > > mast can
> > > > > > > > > > > > rotate, or can you just keep turning it in
the same
> > > > > direction
> > > > > > > > > > endlessly?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I tried various staying setups on the
prototypes. They
> > > > > are not
> > > > > > > > worth
> > > > > > > > > > > the effort on cruising boats, probably not on
racers
> > > eiither.
> > > > > > > > Amongst
> > > > > > > > > > > other drawbacks, the mast could not rotate 360
> > > degrees. None
> > > > > > > of the
> > > > > > > > > > > current designs has stays.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > For very light airs, can you easily rig some
sort of
> > > > > downwind
> > > > > > > > sail?
> > > > > > > > > > > > Genniker, cruising spinaker, etc?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Pretty easy if required. I use an extension to the
> > > front
> > > > > of the
> > > > > > > > boom
> > > > > > > > > > > and attach the tack of the extra to it and
sheet it to
> > > > > the back
> > > > > > > > end of
> > > > > > > > > > > the boom. Not ideal, but it works. A large
genoa type
> > > sail is
> > > > > > > best
> > > > > > > > > > > as the rig is rotated so that it is always close
> > > hauled, even
> > > > > > > > when the
> > > > > > > > > > > breeze is aft. For dead down wind, the boom is
> > > athwartships.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I have seen very little on the actual sailing
speed
> > > of
> > > > > > > Blind Date
> > > > > > > > > > (the
> > > > > > > > > > > > only boat I have heard that does frequent
sailing).
> > > Has a
> > > > > > polar
> > > > > > > > > > > > diagram been created? Or at least anecdotal
readings
> > > of
> > > > > speed
> > > > > > > > under
> > > > > > > > > > > > different points of sail, with different wind
speeds
> > > > > and sea
> > > > > > > > states?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > The best indication of the boats' potential is at
> > > > > > > > > > > http://www.youtube.
where Rare
> > > Bird
> > > > > > > > reaches at
> > > > > > > > > > > wind speed on it's first decent voyage. The
sails are
> > > not
> > > > > right
> > > > > > > > > > > (small job, no one has got round to it) and as
you can
> > > > > see, no
> > > > > > > > one is
> > > > > > > > > > > trying very hard to sail it fast. Blind Date is
> > > considerably
> > > > > > > > lighter,
> > > > > > > > > > > with a stiffer mast and better sails. It goes
back in
> > > the
> > > > > water
> > > > > > > > in a
> > > > > > > > > > > month or two and some more videos will be
forthcoming,
> > > I
> > > > > hope.
> > > > > > > > There
> > > > > > > > > > > are some pictures and videos of it at
> > > > > > > > > > > http://www.zeilenme
appreciate
> > > that
> > > > > > > this is
> > > > > > > > > > > not the answer to your question, but it is all
we have
> > > at the
> > > > > > > > moment.
> > > > > > > > > > > Based on my sailing on the (very rough)
prototypes the
> > > harder
> > > > > > > > it blows
> > > > > > > > > > > and the rougher it gets, the better the boats will
> > > perform,
> > > > > > > > compared
> > > > > > > > > > > to conventional cats. This is due to the rockerless
> > > > > hulls, the
> > > > > > > > > > > flexible mast and the lower windage of the
harryproa
> > > > > platform.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > What is the underwing clearance (Visionarry and
> > > Harryproa)
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > 6-900 mm/ 24-36". It can be less at the ww hull
as the
> > > hull
> > > > > > > > lifts to
> > > > > > > > > > > the waves making impact wioth the beam or floor
less
> > > likely,
> > > > > > > except
> > > > > > > > > > > when motoring straight into big waves. .
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Finally, a big one. I will never have the
> > > time/talent to
> > > > > > > build a
> > > > > > > > > > boat.
> > > > > > > > > > > > I have seen the stated materials costs for
> > > Visionarry ($80K
> > > > > > > > AU) and
> > > > > > > > > > > > build time (4500 hours). How does this translate
> > > into a
> > > > > > > budgetary
> > > > > > > > > > > > number to see if I should even be looking at this
> > > boat?
> > > > > > > > Assuming I am
> > > > > > > > > > > > willing to get it built anywhere that does
excellent
> > > work,
> > > > > > > > can I jst
> > > > > > > > > > > > multiply 4500 hours times $xxx/hr + $80K AU
and get
> > > a
> > > > > number?
> > > > > > > > What
> > > > > > > > > > > > would $xxx/hr be?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > $AUS72 per hour was our charge out rate.
Moderate by
> > > > > Australian
> > > > > > > > > > > standards, cheap by European and US standards
and very
> > > > > > expensive
> > > > > > > > > > > compared to low labour cost countries' rates. I am
> > > currently
> > > > > > > > > > > talking to builders from South America, South
Africa,
> > > the
> > > > > > > Caribbean
> > > > > > > > > > > and eastern Europe about a 60' charter proa. Their
> > > labour
> > > > > > > rates are
> > > > > > > > > > > much lower, as are overheads, although there may be
> > > quality
> > > > > > > > issues to
> > > > > > > > > > > overcome. I intend to be on site for the first
build
> > > to
> > > > > > > ensure high
> > > > > > > > > > > quality. This boat's hulls and beams will be
far fewer
> > > > > > hours and
> > > > > > > > > > > lighter than the strip planked equivalent and the
> > > > > interior will
> > > > > > > > be far
> > > > > > > > > > > quicker to install.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks very much. I must warn you that if someone
> > > > > replies to
> > > > > > > > this, I
> > > > > > > > > > > > am likely to post more questions <grin>
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Keep 'em coming!
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > regards,
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Rob Denney
> > > > > > > > > > > www.harryproa.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > - Gardner
> > > > > > > > > > > >
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