Nothing personal and not wishing to stop anyone from having the boat
they want, but isn't it interesting how many different opinions there are.

I have been a permanent live aboard cruiser for nearly 20 years and
150,000 miles. I started with a boat that had a compass, sextant and
leadline. No electronics, no radio, no pressure water...... I ended
with nearly all the things on your list (mainly coz they were on the
next boat I bought).

I learned to hate them all and am cheerfully planning the next boat
without any of that stuff, which in part is what appealed to me about
the harry boats, turn the spiral around, less is more and all that.

As I said, just musing, best of luck.

David

--- In harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au, "Rob Denney" <harryproa@...> wrote:
>
> G'day,
>
> On Sat, Apr 5, 2008 at 3:51 AM, gardner.pomper <gardner@...> wrote:
> >
> > Rob,
> >
> > It is great for you to offer to put together a 3D model of this,
but I
> > would hold for a bit. I think I am coming around to your opinion of
> > just bumping up from 55 to 60' because I have jammed things
together a
> > bit in terms of walking around the saloon. If I go ahead with the
> > longer length, which everyone keeps saying isn't a big deal, I will
> > not be adding more stuff (except for a bit more deck and hardtop), so
> > I should gain on the payload issue, which should help.
>
> Good thinking.
> >
> > I need to look up specifics to get weights. I know I want the
following:
> >
> > cat dinghy (12' with 15+ HP outboard)
> > Stove w/oven
> > microwave
> > inverter
> > generator
> > fridge w/freezer
> > 3 heads w/holding tanks
> > 2 propane cannisters
> > 6 large solar panels
> > undetermined engine system. Electric on rudders sounds good. I am
> > watching those threads. I want a system that can drive the boat at 8
> > knots in protected waters when I can't sail. What this will
require in
> > terms of extra weight is unclear to me. I assume it will just run off
> > the generator for long (4+ hour) motoring days.
>
> Looks good to me.
>
> Maybe the electric motor experts will give us some weight estimates
> for a system that will drive the boat at 8 knots. Rare Bird does 8
> knots with 2 x 15hp Hondas and Blind Date 8 with 1 x very old 20 hp 2
> stroke.
> >
> > I don't know an even approximate weight on this stuff yet. I will
fill
> > in what I can with the next drawing I post.
>
> I have a couple of lists of equipment that I will be putting on the
> web page (any day now...) to make it easier.
> >
> > As I go ahead an move closer to your charter layout, I was wondering
> > if you could say again the tradeoffs between the schooner rig and the
> > single main, in terms of cost, performance and short handed or single
> > handed crew.
>
> The single main is the best option and works really well on the little
> boat. I am not so sure about putting one on the larger boats, so
> intend to test it on Solitarry as an intermediate step, and also do
> some sailing on Blind Date with only the main. The ballestron
> (balanced rig with the jib on an extension of the main boom) is the
> preferred single mast rig on the big boats at the moment. It is a
> little more expensive, a little heavier, has higher sheet loads, but
> is easier to trim. Both perform simialrly, not as good upwind as a
> well tuned jib/main sloop, but better reaching and downwind. The
> advantage for the charter boat is that the schooner opens up the
> leeward hull and is easier for the first timer to shunt. If the
> logic behind any of the above is not clear, let me know.
>
> > And the reason behind my "visibility" push is that I often don't sit
> > behind the wheel when sailing. For long sails, I like to lock in the
> > autopilot and move around the cockpit and want good visibility from
> > everywhere. It is also more fun for the crew and passengers if they
> > have a good view from where ever they are (especially the cook).
>
> I agree, but don't think you will get any cat or alternative proa
> layout with as good visibility and nearness of crew as the charter
> boat. Standing up, you have 360 vision except for the masts.
> Sitting down, you have
> >
> > Thanks again. I am amazed by the amount of effort you put in to
> > answering all the posts in the group.
>
> It is not difficult when you enjoy it as much as I do. Please keep
> the questions, especially the difficult ones, coming.
>
> regards,
> Rob
> >
> > - Gardner
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au, "Rob Denney" <harryproa@> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > These new designs make it impossible to dismount I would think
> > >
> > > They are all demountable.
> > >
> > > I really, really like my visibility from the helm, so I
> > > > am worried about having the
> > > > > cabins and heads all at deck level.
> > >
> > > There is a 400mm/16" step between the cabin floor and the
bridgedeck,
> > > so there is all round vision from the helm while standing, or
with an
> > > elevated chair.
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I tried putting this layout onto the Visionarry hulls, but
I expect
> > > > that they would not carry
> > > > > the payload, but I am trying to keep this as small (read
> > affordable)
> > > > as possible, so I just
> > > > > went halfway between the 50' and 60' ideas mentioned in the
group.
> > > > To keep the hull
> > > > > shapes simple (cheaper), I just needed a 5' width in the ww
> > hull for
> > > > queen bunks (I want
> > >
> > > 5' wide hulls are fine, as long as the waterline is kept narrow.
> > > Nothing less than 12:1 length to waterline beam. Once you know your
> > > boat weight, this can be tweaked accordingly. Adding another
5'/1.5m
> > > is a very cheap exercise.
> > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I would love to get feedback on this. I am particularly
interested
> > > > if I can get away with a
> > > > > single mast (height off the water must be < 65 feet) and if the
> > boom
> > > > will hit the hardtop.
> > > > > Also, are the hulls the right size (approx).
> > >
> > > It is great that you are getting your ideas on paper. It all looks
> > > possible to me at first glance. The devil is often in the
detail, and
> > > this shows up with 3d drawings. I will do some of these when I
get a
> > > moment. Please remind me in a couple of weeks if I have not done
> > > them. Possible mast height depends on speed required and weight.
> > > Rare Bird's mast is a little under 18m/60' so 65' should not be a
> > > problem for you. The booms can be raised to clear the hardtop. Hull
> > > size will depend on the weight. Start making lists of what you want
> > > on the boat and what it weighs and costs and we can work from
there.
> > >
> > > regards,
> > >
> > > Rob
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > > Yahoo! for Good helps you make a difference
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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> > > > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.4/1355 - Release Date:
> > 4/1/2008
> > > > 5:37 PM
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> > > >
> > > >
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> > > > Checked by AVG.
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> >
> >
>

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