--- In harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au, "Rob Denney" <harryproa@...> wrote:
>With regard to rope especially when you are controlling two rudders
with the system i would think you would always have some pulluey creep
so after a while the rudders could get out of sync. However having a
wheel and using only one rudder at a time this is not such a problem.

However having creep on a remote tiller system would eventually have
the tiller sticking out at all sorts of odd angles. My suggestion
there would be a hybrid system using low stretch rope connecting
short lengths of stainless " bike chain" which is used in industrial
food manufacture running on stainless sprockets. Light low maint and
positive no slip actuation.
> G'day,
>
> This is the simplest system for a pilot. Rope is the simplest for the
> steering, but as JT says, it has problems with stretch , although
> breakage should be rare with modern ropes. Once the stretch is
> removed, it should be pretty uneventful. The best way to remove it
> is to have an adjustable pulley somewhere in the system. I like th
> ecertainty of the mechanical systems, but not the accuracy or the cost
> that goes with them.
>
> Luis, on the beams, not in them.. There are some pictures of my
> rough prototype in the files section.
>
> regards,
>
> Rob
>
> On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 3:55 AM, chesapeake410 <chesapeake410@...>
wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hello Rob,
> >
> > For autopilot could you use a simple tiler pilot and attach it to a
> > bell crank or lever (tiller) that had a clamp to lock it to control
> > line going from rudder to wheel. I expect you could not use the auto
> > tack function but would have to move it to other rudder or have two
> > tiller pilots. You would not expect to use this for short distances
> > do to the hassle of changing it when you shunted but when you expect
> > to be on the same course for a long time it may be useful.
> >
> > I like the idear of using rope cable for wheel steering as I beleive
> > you have used on some of the Harryproas but what do you consider the
> > pros and con of this system vs the use of rack and pinion gears or
> > other mechanical systems. I expect the rope system would be least
> > expensive and if it is reliable and works well why would you use a
> > more expensive system ?
> >
> > George Kuck
> > Chestertown, MD
> >
> > --- In harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au, "Rob Denney" <harryproa@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > G'day,
> > >
> > > I tried non rotating foils a while ago, but as JT said, they do not
> > > work as well as rotating ones. There are also balance issues at
> > high
> > > speed. The balance is not a simple function of where the shaft is.
> > > We usually put the shaft at 20% of the chord which gives enough
> > > balance without the likelihood of the centre of force on the rudder
> > > getting ahead of the centre of rotation and causing the rudder to
> > > rotate. This would be disastrous.
> > >
> > > With the two rudders it is pretty easy to get the boat to steer
> > itself
> > > for a minute or two. I have not tried for longer. When i was
> > playing
> > > with the Outleader kite on Elementarry I regularly locked the helm
> > > while I sorted out tangled lines. Zero rocker makes for
> > excellent
> > > tracking properties.
> > >
> > > I will be testing this further on the solo 15m/50' boat which will
> > not
> > > be having an electric autopilot.. If it won't steer satisfactorily
> > > for 20-30 minutes at a time, I will try a wind vane. If that
> > doesn't
> > > work, I will just dump the sheets while i sleep.
> > >
> > > regards,
> > >
> > > Rob
> > >
> > > On Sun, Apr 13, 2008 at 5:03 AM, George Kuck <chesapeake410@>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > If rudder is symmetric there would never be any reason to rotate
> > more than
> > > > 180 (and likely less than + or - 45), You would simply switch
> > leading edge
> > > > on rudders when you shunt.. Is this what you envision or will
> > you expect to
> > > > rotate rudder 180 when you shunt ? If you do plan on rotating
> > 180 then
> > > > would it make sence to have a 40/60 or other balance ratio on
> > rudder so it
> > > > will have a tendency to rotate on its own when you shunt. This
> > would also
> > > > prevent ruder being stalled at 90 degrees and possibly risk
> > braking sheer
> > > > plate and would add some feel to rudder .
> > > >
> > > > One other question I have had that may be related to rudder
> > design is the
> > > > ability of the Harryproa to self steer by setting sail and
> > locking rudder.
> > > > It may require less than optimal settings for top speed but is it
> > possible
> > > > to let boat steer itself and on what points of sailing would this
> > work best.
> > > > This would be a good trait of the boat if it could be done
> > without the use
> > > > of autopilots or wind vane, even if only as a backup for other
> > system.
> > > >
> > > > Happy sailing,
> > > > George Kuck
> > > > Chestertown, MD
> > > >
> > > > Rob Denney <harryproa@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Sat, Apr 12, 2008 at 10:31 PM, George Kuck <chesapeake410@>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hello Rob,
> > > > > With wheel steering as on a 40' Harryproa will it rotate 360
> > and then have
> > > > > to go back 370 to go an additional 10 degrees or will it be
> > continuously
> > > > > rotatable (to 370 or more). ? Will it be balanced so that there
> > is no load
> > > > > (50/50)or (40/60), or other ? Can rudders be rotated 90 degrees
> > to use as
> > > > > brake when at speed ?
> > > > >
> > > > > Happy sailing,
> > > > > George Kuck
> > > > > Chestertown, MD
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > G'day,
> > > >
> > > > Continuously rotating. Pretty much balanced although there are
> > > > variations in the balance depending on speed, course, foil shape,
> > > > fairness and smoothness. You can use it as a break, at least
until
> > > > the sheer pin breaks.
> > > >
> > > > regards,
> > > > Rob
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > __________________________________________________
> > > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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> > >
> >
> >
>

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