Subject: [harryproa] Re: 18m/60' charter harry. Comments please.
From: "gardnerpomper" <>
Date: 5/16/2008, 1:32 PM


Thanks for posting these renderings. I am absolutely fascinated by the
concept and have pretty much convinced myself that this the my next
(maybe last) boat. I do have questions/comments, some derived from
living about my 30' cat in the bahamas for a year.

1) Motors: I am unclear on the choice of electric motors, raising and
lowering along the rudder. With all the flexing and submerging, isn't
there some issue with longevity? Cracks in the insultation leading to
shorts? What is the tradeoff against hydraulic drives, where a lead
would be less catastrophic?

2) Bunks: we got really aggravated with custom size/shape bunks. We
really just wanted to get standard bedding. Could there be some minor
fiddling that would allow the bunks to be standard doubles/queen sizes
so that standard sheets, etc would fit?

3) Dinghy ramp: I don't see this in the rendering. I am assuming that
the ramp replaces some of the netting on one side, like on Rare Bird.
I see how that makes getting the dinghy on and off easy, btu I haven't
been clear on how swimmers get on and off the boat. Or how you get in
and out of the dinghy. Do you go from the crossbeam to the dinghy
seats? That would seem to be a pretty big step, with a 30" underwing
clearance and a 12" crossbeam. Do swimmers crawl up the ramp?

4) Cabins: these seem fairly luxurious in comparison with the galley
area. On a rainy day, sitting at anchor, most people are going to want
to congregate near the galley, lounging on something more comforatble
than folding chairs. With this layout, I would expect they will have
to lie in bed. Might it be possible to shift just a bit of room from
the staterooms to allow one settee on either side of the entryway to
the cockpit? Nobody wants to hang out in their cabin.

5) Visibility: I think the fore and aft windows with the step shades
doing double duty to access the "roof" is brilliant. I was also hoping
that the interior partitions to the staterooms would only be
half-walls, with drop down shades (bamboo, maybe) which could be
pulled up to open the area when no one is using the cabins. The
portion of the windward-most hull for the heads could be full height,
which would also double for letting their be overhead cabinets there
in the galley for extra storage.

6) Table: I don't have a good feel for the size of the table in the
galley. That is a fixed mount, isn't it? If you could add that to the
rendering, it would be helpful. I can see with folding chairs at the
table and store them elsewhere (maybe even overhead, above the table?).

7) Machinery: is this all in the windward hull? Access panels where?
(galley and each bunk?). I assume you can just drop down into the hull
and move around? What is down there, generator, watermaker, batteries,
fuel and water tanks?

8) Cockpit: You mention "roll down clears" for the cockpit. Will those
be useable underway? They look like it would be a vertical drop, which
I thought might be back for wind resistance. To enclose, you would
also need half-height solid gates leading to the walkways adjacent to
the netting. Are those just left off the preliminary rendering?

9) LW Entry: Is the entry to the leeward hull through hatches under
the bimini? If so, why do you need the walkways betwee the LW hull and
the nettings?

10) Storage: is there storage under the floor in the saloon? With the
height of the crossbeams, it would seem possible to make that a double
floor and use it for storage. Maybe a pull up parquait type flooring?
Make battery access easier? I am not really suggesting this; more just
asking if that is what you intended.

11) Underwing attachment? In the rendering, there is something under
the crossbeams on the front view image. Is that supposed to represent
the dinghy ramp in the down position, or is it a permanent fixture
that I just don't understand?

12) Rudders: This is the biggest question area for me about the whole
proa concept. These lifting, kickup, reversable rudders seem like the
mechanical equivalent of the ginsu knife.. (slices, dices, makes
julianne fries). It would seem tremendously difficult to make a
mechanism that does all this under considerable loads for long periods
of time and still be reliable (and not terribly expensive). I really
want one of these boats to get built so that I can see it work in person.

13) Pricing: You mention materials ($AUS 28,000) and labor ($AUS
96,000) and compare to a 39' cat at $AUS 99,000. The sail away price
for the cat from their web site is about $US 295,000. Are we to assume
that the sail away for the proa should be about $US 300,000?

Thanks very much for posting this info. I just wish I could
concentrate on my job instead of thinking about sailing one of these
all the time <grin>.

- Gardner

--- In, "Robert" <cateran1949@...> wrote:
> -I read that there are windows underneath those external steps up to
> the cabin top.
> -- In, "jjtctaylor" <jtaylor412@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Rob,
> >
> > Only a couple of thoughts on the Seabbatical. Too bad cannot see
> forward thru WW hull
> > so can navigate inside in inclement conditions. Certainly not an
> issue for the Carib. except
> > summer months when it rains frequently. The design similar to other
> open cockpit cats
> > necessitates those in LW hull to get out if they want a snack from
> the galley. The charter
> > company must already know that handicap.
> >
> > It's got a WHOLE lot more windage than any previous design, by a
> significant margin. Nice
> > in the Carib most areas are deep water so you can have a good deep
> rudder to manage.
> >
> > Certainly you will have a decent plan for swim platform and easy
> boarding. A significant
> > climb up for the overweight snorkler won't be pretty. Plus for
> safety reasons need a
> > REALLY decent method to lift unconscious MOB, etc. Whatever has to
> be quick and totally
> > logical cause crisis onboard an unfamiliar charter craft could lead
> to added injuries. I just
> > don't think a sling off a boom and a set of blocks is elegant or
> efficient. Has to work for
> > the most inexperienced and frail sailor and recover the person over
> or thru the lifelines.
> >
> > Is the charter group expecting to tow the dinghy ? Your ramp would
> be nice, otherwise
> > the inattentive party crew is likely to foul it in the rudders. I
> probably would a few times,
> > till worked out a system to manage in the shunting process. While
> we think seamanship,
> > charter goers are looking for their next drink.
> >
> > Chart/nav table going somewhere ?
> >
> > See if you can work out some arrangement for WW hull for sliding
> doors to open wide
> > enough to make salon feel open to cockpit.
> >
> > Big galley guess need arrangement for seating. That in itself will
> take a whole bunch of
> > space. Or is that area seating and galley somwhere else ? Have to
> seat 8. Rain, wind or
> > sometimes bugs made outside feeding impractical at times.
> >
> > Bar-B-Que on the rail right ? May want to afford some firm deck
> surface out to that and to
> > whatever boarding device you invent.
> >
> > I agree with others, hatches will make it look better. Maybe some
> round flush type
> > hatches, for ART-deco type styling. It's already eclectic enough,
> why not take the artsy
> > stuff to the next level. Take advantage of the already nuveau look
> and play with it. Need
> > to soften the angular look with some round.
> >
> > Got a BIG flat spot on the WW hull roof. Add a pad, (round corners
> for looks) for
> > sunbathers. Make sure you have nice steps up. Cool wind, spray on
> the WW hull, make
> > some sun lovers into lobsters.
> >
> > It could be awesome when done.
> >
> > Need a marine industrial "designer" to match easy fab with artistic
> flair.
> >
> > That's my $.02, today worth $.015.
> >
> > JT
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In, "Rob Denney" <harryproa@> wrote:
> > >
> > > G'day,
> > >
> > > I have posted some renderings of the 18m/60' Seabbatical charter cat
> > > to the files section. This is still a work in progress, but
both the
> > > owner and I thought it would be good to get some feedback from the
> > > members of this group.
> > >
> > > I have also posted a first draft of an article describing the
> > >
> > > Look forward to your input.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Rob
> > >
> >

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