Subject: Re: [harryproa] low cost carbon fiber
From: Raps callion
Date: 5/27/2008, 12:56 PM

here is a link:

----- Original Message ----
From: Rob Denney <>
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 9:09:00 AM
Subject: Re: [harryproa] low cost carbon fiber


The S glass carbon sounds interesting. Be good to use it with the
carbon lengthwise for stiffness and the S glass around the hull.

On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 9:23 PM, Raps callion
<captian_rapscallion> wrote:
> the basalt sounds interesting. I also found a carbon fiber/S glass variant
> that is about the same price as s glass. Don't get me wrong, in general I
> hate spending money, but if the weight savings merits the extra cost I'll go
> for it. Just the thought of a bruce number over 2 on a "racer cruiser" (and
> when I say cruiser I mean a spartan cruiser like the laser 28) I get
> excited.

Like your attitude! Using the carbon lengthwise would save 9 kgs of
uni glass and resin. Not to be sneezed at in a light boat.
> I really didn't think I could get standing headroom (no pop tops), fast and
> easy setup, can be pulled by a medium sized car, a comfortable ride and
> mind blowing speed all from the same boat! I wonder if a proa ever entered
> the Mac race, it might be a first.

All possible, except maybe the race entry. I will drop them a line
(copied to you) and see what they have to say. Otherwise, it will be
a cruise in company with the fleet. Saves you some unnecessary safety
gear and the entry fee.
> Would a rudder track system like the one on solitary work on this boat?

Solitarry has two rudders, lift the front one except in very light
air. I had a rudder on a track on Elementarry (25') and it worked
well. In light air, you can move your body weight forward to give the
boat something to rotate around. This won't work so well on the
bigger boats. Other problem is, the track has to be strong enough
for the one time in one thousand that you stuff up the procedure when
you are shunting. And the longer it is, the stronger and heavier it
has to be. Elementarry' s worked brilliantly for 999 shunts.... Your
boat will have the rudders in cassettes in dagger cases in the hull as
they can't go on the telescoping beams. Little heavier, more
efficient, until you hit something.
> I checked out the proa forum, those guys seem to have an ax to grind. They
> are a bit unfair with the ridicule. Because of the craziness of their
> unreason, I have to guess they are just egging you on. either that or they
> really are crazy.

Goes back a long way, and it is possible that they are all the same
guy (maybe 2 guys), who definitely has an axe to grind. Completely
crazy, but I get the opportunity to extoll harry's virtues, so I'm not
complaining. The less fair the ridicule, the more support I get from
the normal readers. I used to give as good (or better) than I got.
Was much more fun, but no one else was on my side. Now it is the
other way round, helped enormously by having the video of Rare Bird
strutting it's stuff.



> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Rob Denney <harryproa@gmail. com>
> To: harryproa@yahoogrou
> Sent: Monday, May 26, 2008 10:49:16 PM
> Subject: Re: [harryproa] low cost carbon fiber
> G''day,
> Spoke to the Polycore guy. It is not available in the USA, so will
> have to ship from either here or China. If you get resin and glass as
> well, then putting it all together from here makes best sense. I am
> waiting for shipping prices, will let you know.
> The tow can be used for lengthwise stiffening, in place of 3 x
> 100mm/4" wide strips of 400 gsm/12 oz uni along the gunwhales and
> keel, and for wrapping round the mast bearings and beam sockets but it
> is too much like hard work for general laminating. Another option
> is to use basalt fibre, which looks like carbon, is almost as strong,
> but not as stiff. The Polycore guys also sell this, so it may be
> worth getting the basalt and the Polycore direct from China, the resin
> locally. Should have a price for the basalt next week.
> Building is a variation on KSS. The full length panels are g;lassed
> on the table from gunwhale to waterline inside and out. They are then
> joined along the keel and the gunwhales lifted, which forms a U
> section hull. The ends are then pinched together which forces some
> negative rocker into the hull. Try this with a piece of paper to see
> the effect. Weights are then rested on the gunwhales which force
> the unglassed core to conform to the underwater shape, and removes the
> negative rocker. The inside is glassed, then the outside, bulkheads
> and mast step go in, then the deck goes on. The hull sides and decks
> have matching radii (radiuses) on their edges so the deck join is very
> simple and requires very little fairing.
> regards,
> Rob
> On Mon, May 26, 2008 at 11:29 PM, Raps callion
> <captian_rapscallio n> wrote:
>> Rob ,
>> Can the hulls also use the carbon fiber tow? I don't know much about the
>> KSS method, so I'm not sure how it all works out. Perhaps use the tow
>> first
>> and reinforce with biaxial where required?
>> The cheapest NidaCore I found is from Noah Marine. (19.88 sq meter) But,
>> nida isn't as strong as polycore.
>> http://www.noahsboa tbuilding. com/noahsusa/ items.asp?
>> CartId={186E3F6C- 883E- 4DEVEREST1B- 8168-21D2AC2BBBC 8}&Cc=NIDA& iTpStatus=
>> 0&Tp=&Bc=
>> The best epoxy price is from Aero marine. (about 40US a gallon) There is a
>> link to Aero Marine in the boat design forum directory
>> The carbon tow from texas is the best for that stuff.
>> The biax you have better prices on too.

Y!7 Toolbar

Get it Free!

easy 1-click access

to your groups.

Yahoo!7 Groups

Start a group

in 3 easy steps.

Connect with others.