Subject: [harryproa] Re: Current rudder design?
From: "tsstproa" <bitme1234@yahoo.com>
Date: 6/2/2008, 3:44 PM
To: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au
Reply-to:
harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au

Sinse my reply is posted in along with your response.

Is it faster speeds or better handling? Why any speed records
haven't been broken by a two, three, or even four masted sail boat
with inline sails.

Better handling why then are none of the circuit racing multi hulls
or other circuit racing sailboats using two masts?

I think it's the illusion of speed and better handling from both
sails in light winds. What is the total sail area of your two sails?
What have you compared your boat to and in what wind strengths did
you seem to sail fast in?

Combine your two into one sail or break it up to where sails sit on
different planes, decrease by 25-30 % put in a flexible rig
configuration. Reduce boats over all weight by 20- 30 % and then
compare. But hey Going fast in high winds (not survival mode
sailing) is different from doing wind speed in 8knots

I'm a firm believer in that for a given boat length its the hull's
ability to carry sail area as efficiently as possible along with off
setting heel forces equally with out upsetting hull balance fore and
aft without increasing drag and amounts of weight that creates speed
in any wind condition, not just two unstayed masts with two sails.

Todd

--- In harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au, Doug Haines <doha720@...> wrote:
>
> Hi
> &nbsp;
> I'd like to reply to mike:
> losing one mast is not something you plan for.
> Neither is losing both rudders.
> I can't handle both sails (4 sets of sheet ropes), plus rudders
(mine need to go up and down in a shunt) very well. The question is
is the extra handling hassle worth it if you might gat better speed ?
> &nbsp;
> Doug
>
> --- On Sat, 31/5/08, tsstproa bitme1234@... wrote:
>
> From: tsstproa bitme1234@...
> Subject: [harryproa] Re: Current rudder design?
> To: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au
> Date: Saturday, 31 May, 2008, 12:31 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sure,
>
> And two sticks carring two sails is more drag, vs one.
>
> More sail area won't due you any good if its in the wrong place.
> Or needing to use deep boards to compensate for extra sail area in
> wrong place to stay in control adding even more drag. Its a proa
no.
>
> Going off shore most carry spare of everything that they can.
>
> Steer By sails alone on a proa that needs deep daggerboards (prove
> it) explain that.
>
> Weather cocking on a proa balanced right easily does that with a
> single sail.
>
> Each to his own i'd agree.
>
> But Doug said he thought his boards needed to be further out
> towards bows for better control.
>
> So I simply gave a alternative, a glimps of what I thought worked
> well. Why would some take offense to that. I share my ideas
knowing
> nothings set in stone I know this. Its nice to get different
> perspectives on different problems and solutions.
>
> Todd
>
> --- In harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au, Mike Crawford
jmichael@ .&gt;
> wrote:
> &gt;
> &gt;
> &gt; Two sets of everything is more complex. There's a lot to be
> said for
> &gt; a single una rig that doesn't have to be messed with.
> &gt;
> &gt; With that said, a schooner rig will:
> &gt;
> &gt; - allow more sail area for the same righting moment
> &gt;
> &gt; - provide a backup in case one mast/sail fails
> &gt;
> &gt; - use shorter/lighter masts that are more easily stepped, and
> also
> &gt; transported/ shipped
> &gt;
> &gt; - allow you to steer and sail the boat, even if both rudders
are
> gone.
> &gt;
> &gt; - provide a great weathercocking setup using a reefed aft
sail
> in a
> &gt; big storm (assuming you're not using drogues yet).
> &gt;
> &gt; It's all a matter of what you want to do with the boat, how
far
> out
> &gt; you want to go, and how long you'll be there. One person's
hassle
> is
> &gt; another person's peace of mind.
> &gt;
> &gt; - Mike
> &gt;
> &gt;
> &gt;
> &gt; tsstproa wrote:
> &gt; &gt;
> &gt; &gt; Its just finding the correct geomtry to allow specific
sail being
> &gt; &gt; used to feather through Aframe if back winded.
> &gt; &gt;
> &gt; &gt; I see where you would think having two sails would make
it
> easier to
> &gt; &gt; set for any condition in deep water.
> &gt; &gt;
> &gt; &gt; But what could be easier than one line to reef sail and
another
> to
> &gt; &gt; shift entire sail from fore to aft. Instead of worring
about two
> &gt; &gt; sets of everything.
> &gt; &gt;
> &gt; &gt; Todd
> &gt; &gt;
> &gt; &gt; --- In harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au
> &gt; &gt; &lt;mailto:harryproa% 40yahoogroups.
com.au&gt;, "Robert" &lt;cateran1949@ &gt;
> &gt; &gt; wrote:
> &gt; &gt; &gt;
> &gt; &gt; &gt; If the sails were as easy to shunt and good in
being caught
> aback,
> &gt; &gt; I
> &gt; &gt; &gt; would be with you all the way. I intend to set up a
system
> similar
> &gt; &gt; to
> &gt; &gt; &gt; your A frame on my 5m outrigger proa using a
windsurfer rig.
> It is
> &gt; &gt; &gt; designed for paddling out to snorkeling and fishing
spots, and
> it
> &gt; &gt; &gt; would be nice to sail home when the wind gets up.
> &gt; &gt; &gt;
> &gt; &gt; &gt; When you are in deeper water with a schooner rig,
you power
> up. You
> &gt; &gt; &gt; are not feathering all the time
> &gt; &gt; &gt; Robert--- In harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au
> &gt; &gt; &lt;mailto:harryproa% 40yahoogroups.
com.au&gt;, "tsstproa" &lt;bitme1234@&gt;
> &gt; &gt; &gt; wrote:
> &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;
> &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; I don't know less depth less likely to hit
somthing. Sounds
> good
> &gt; &gt; for
> &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; cruising or racing. Also smaller boards
possibly working
> under
> &gt; &gt; less
> &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; strain on structure.
> &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;
> &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Also one sail less gear along with shorter
board depths =
> less
> &gt; &gt; drag
> &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; What a waste to have one sail feathering in
the wake of
> another.
> &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;
> &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Better balance faster foward speeds with least
amount of
> forces
> &gt; &gt; all
> &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; around.
> &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;
> &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Todd
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________________
> Sent from Yahoo! Mail.
> A Smarter Email http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
>

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