Oh, on a related note, I have redone my calculations for buoyancy on the hulls and reduced the ww hull waterline beam to 2'. From my calcs, this gives a ww displacement of 2,188 lbs and a hull weight (not including the deck stuff) of 535 lbs. The lw hull at 45' with a 1.5' waterline beam has a displacement of 1910 lbs with a hull weight of 500 lbs. If I allow another 500 lbs for the cabin and 500 lbs for machinery (batteries, outboard, etc), I get a full up weight of 2000 lbs with a displacement of 4000 lbs, so I think I have allowed for enough weight for crew and supplies. -There is no need to bury the fatter beam all the way through the ww
I didn't mention explicitly before, but I have reduced my target lw hull length to 45'. That is the 28' length of the ww hull, plus 2 removable lw hull extensions of 8.5' each. I can tell from reponses that I have not explained my mounting method for the hulls clearly. There is a V shaped bracked I have used on a nesting dinghy. One end will attach to the main lw hull. This is the female part of the V. A male flange will then be mounted to the removeable section, so that you can just drop the 8.5' section into the female V and it will slide into place and be held there. For additional security, you would then want to bolt it tight, but the hull is held together firmly by the bracket before you do that.
As always, I am looking for more feedback.
One specific request area: How does the rig come apart on the other trailerable? just a mast and boom; so how does the boom come off? Can you leave the sail in place when you remove it? What are the dimensions and estimated weight of the mast, boom and sail (seperately)
Thanks,
- Gardner
York, PA
Hi all,
Ok, I have uploaded the modifications to the trailerable PDFs to allow for the different underwing clearance for the ww and lw hulls. This allowed me to add a bench/storage cabinet to the galley area. I also extended the hardtop to cover the flip down walkway, so the drawings show the boat the way it will normally be in the water; the whole 10'x11' cockpit area will be covered with a hard roof, from which roll down clears can enclose it against any weather. This can all stay in place when going in and out of the slip, and there is very little additional work to trailer it this way as well.
I have drawn the visual for putting the boat in a shipping container. I am cutting the measurements very close, so I don't know if that will work or not. I am assuming that I will need a 108" high, top loading container. So far, none of the shipping companies have gotten back to me on what the cost is for a container from Panama to Philadelphia or Baltimore, so it may cost more to do that than to get it delivered. I would still like the option of shipping it to New Zealand. I am not sure yet if this is a boat that should cross the Pacific.
The steering remaings as one of my bigger concerns. I am unclear if there is some way to put the rudders on the beam, while still allowing the boat to extend its beam from 12' to 20'. I am willing to increase the max beam to 14' if this will make a big difference.
The steering of a proa is still unclear to me in general. If I have 2 rudders, and 2 tillers, what happens to the tillers when I shunt? Do the tillers have to flip up overtop of the rudders, since the rudders flip 180 degrees? How do I do that on a boat where the helmsman is 15-20' from the rudders? Do I need to handle both tillers at the same time? Plus, I need to handle the sheets to swing the boom across. How do I do this single handed? Can the rudders be connected together with a fiberglass pole, and then I just have 1 extension tiller to that pole?
I definitely plan on single handing, and so far it sounds like a lot of running around on the tramps, using 4 hands at a time. I am sure there is a better way, but I am not clear on it yet.
- Gardner
hull when expanded, only enough to support it. As the loads are
significantly less than the other joins,. it doesn't have to be that
deep, I reckon you could get away with 18" to 2'.The only problem is
beefing the parts up for the compression point loads. The contact
areas are slightly fatter to make for minimum slack at the various
expansion widths, while slightly narrower elsewhere to allow easy
movement between, so the extra carbon is easy to add at these points.
This gives you about another 4' With suitable triangular bracing, you
could reduce the bury to 4" such as on Farrier tris but that would
increase the complexity.
For the bows, I feel a hinged system would allow easier alignment, and
if you need to completely remove them, simply remove the cotter pin
and pull out the axle. Much easier to align the hinge on the outside
for the first attachment than try and push bolts through with someone
on the inside of the hull quickly getting a nut on,
Robert-- In harryproa@yahoogrou
<gardner@...> wrote:
>
> I am not sure what you mean by "how to get another 5 feet". Do you
mean in
> beam or in length? The outer beam already buries all the way through
the ww
> hull to the ww side. Sorry, I am just not following. Can you elaborate?
>
> I was not really trying to shorten the boat for slip storage,
although I can
> see that could help when I rent a slip. I have a dock, so I wasn't that
> concerned with that. I just want the boat shortened for trailering.
I am not
> sure of the max height I can trailer without permits, etc, so 8' bow
> extensions that hinged up would take my height to about 13 feet, which I
> thought was probably too high.
>
> - Gardner
>
>
> > -I can see how to get another 5 feet or so by making the cabin edges
> > strong enough to allow the outer beam to have a bury of 2' into the ww
> > hull. This would allow the through beam rudders and still have plenty
> > of narrowing for slips. Still reckon a hinge on top would allow the
> > bows relatively easy shortening for being left in a slip
> > You have worked out the tolerances pretty fine. I reckon it should
> > work-- In harryproa@yahoogrou
> > "gardnerpomper" <gardner@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > I have posted new versions of my ideas for a 50' trailerable in the
> > Gardner's Layout folder, if
> > > anyone is interested.
> > >
> > > The idea for this boat is one that can be trailered, or shipped in a
> > container, but is ordinarily
> > > left in a slip, so is just collapsed to a 12' beam. This allowed me
> > to basically move the seating
> > > out from the galley area, so that I can have a real galley, as well
> > as a queen and a single.
> > >
> > > I am retaining the idea of bows that remove for trailering or
> > containerizing, because that lets
> > > me put a very long lw hull without the awkwardness of trying to
> > trailer a 50' boat.
> > >
> > > I have absolutely no idea how the steering would be set up on this,
> > how the rudders would
> > > mount, etc. I am hoping that someone can help me out with ideas for
> > that. I would be willing
> > > to go with fixed rudders if I really have to in the leeward hull,
> > but I don't want a draft of more
> > > than 30". Lift up rudders would be preferable.
> > >
> > > Thanks for any feedback.
> > >
> > > - Gardner
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
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