G'day,
> I didn't mention explicitly before, but I have reduced my target lw hull
> length to 45'. That is the 28' length of the ww hull, plus 2 removable lw
> hull extensions of 8.5' each. I can tell from reponses that I have not
> explained my mounting method for the hulls clearly. There is a V shaped
> bracked I have used on a nesting dinghy. One end will attach to the main lw
> hull. This is the female part of the V. A male flange will then be mounted
> to the removeable section, so that you can just drop the 8.5' section into
> the female V and it will slide into place and be held there. For additional
> security, you would then want to bolt it tight, but the hull is held
> together firmly by the bracket before you do that.
>
Bolts really are a pain, as is sealing them and crawling or reaching
inside a 2' wide hull to do them up/undo them. The V could be made as
a U shaped dove tail which would be strong enough to do the job
without bolts. I still prefer a hinge and a piece of rope, with a few
purchases to get it tight.
> As always, I am looking for more feedback.
>
> One specific request area: How does the rig come apart on the other
> trailerable? just a mast and boom; so how does the boom come off? Can you
> leave the sail in place when you remove it? What are the dimensions and
> estimated weight of the mast, boom and sail (seperately)
The boom is 300mm/12" deep at the mast with a bearing top and bottom.
The boom sits in a deck cradle which aligns it over the deck bearing
and the mast is lowered through the boom bearings en route to the deck
and heel bearing. As the boom loads are always upwards, it is also
possible to have a half bearing on the aft face of the mast for the
top one (compression) and another on the forward face for the bottom
(tension). The bottom one could be secured with lines to the
underside of the boom. With this set up, the boom can be installed
after the mast is up.
Harriette progress is a bit slow as there appears to be a local
mdf/melamine shortage. Think I am getting some on Thursday so might
have the hull bent into shape this weekend. Meanwhile the folding
rudder shafts are built, the blades are on and ready for shaping and i
have had a play with basalt (looks like slightly brown carbon, wets
out no problem). More as it happens.
regards,
Rob
>
> Thanks,
> - Gardner
> York, PA
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 6:04 PM, Gardner Pomper <gardner@networknow.
> wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Ok, I have uploaded the modifications to the trailerable PDFs to allow for
>> the different underwing clearance for the ww and lw hulls. This allowed me
>> to add a bench/storage cabinet to the galley area. I also extended the
>> hardtop to cover the flip down walkway, so the drawings show the boat the
>> way it will normally be in the water; the whole 10'x11' cockpit area will be
>> covered with a hard roof, from which roll down clears can enclose it against
>> any weather. This can all stay in place when going in and out of the slip,
>> and there is very little additional work to trailer it this way as well.
>>
>> I have drawn the visual for putting the boat in a shipping container. I am
>> cutting the measurements very close, so I don't know if that will work or
>> not. I am assuming that I will need a 108" high, top loading container. So
>> far, none of the shipping companies have gotten back to me on what the cost
>> is for a container from Panama to Philadelphia or Baltimore, so it may cost
>> more to do that than to get it delivered. I would still like the option of
>> shipping it to New Zealand. I am not sure yet if this is a boat that should
>> cross the Pacific.
>>
>> The steering remaings as one of my bigger concerns. I am unclear if there
>> is some way to put the rudders on the beam, while still allowing the boat to
>> extend its beam from 12' to 20'. I am willing to increase the max beam to
>> 14' if this will make a big difference.
>>
>> The steering of a proa is still unclear to me in general. If I have 2
>> rudders, and 2 tillers, what happens to the tillers when I shunt? Do the
>> tillers have to flip up overtop of the rudders, since the rudders flip 180
>> degrees? How do I do that on a boat where the helmsman is 15-20' from the
>> rudders? Do I need to handle both tillers at the same time? Plus, I need to
>> handle the sheets to swing the boom across. How do I do this single handed?
>> Can the rudders be connected together with a fiberglass pole, and then I
>> just have 1 extension tiller to that pole?
>>
>> I definitely plan on single handing, and so far it sounds like a lot of
>> running around on the tramps, using 4 hands at a time. I am sure there is a
>> better way, but I am not clear on it yet.
>>
>> - Gardner
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 1:29 AM, Robert <cateran1949@
>>>
>>> -There is no need to bury the fatter beam all the way through the ww
>>> hull when expanded, only enough to support it. As the loads are
>>> significantly less than the other joins,. it doesn't have to be that
>>> deep, I reckon you could get away with 18" to 2'.The only problem is
>>> beefing the parts up for the compression point loads. The contact
>>> areas are slightly fatter to make for minimum slack at the various
>>> expansion widths, while slightly narrower elsewhere to allow easy
>>> movement between, so the extra carbon is easy to add at these points.
>>> This gives you about another 4' With suitable triangular bracing, you
>>> could reduce the bury to 4" such as on Farrier tris but that would
>>> increase the complexity.
>>>
>>> For the bows, I feel a hinged system would allow easier alignment, and
>>> if you need to completely remove them, simply remove the cotter pin
>>> and pull out the axle. Much easier to align the hinge on the outside
>>> for the first attachment than try and push bolts through with someone
>>> on the inside of the hull quickly getting a nut on,
>>> Robert-- In harryproa@yahoogrou
>>>
>>> <gardner@...
>>> >
>>> > I am not sure what you mean by "how to get another 5 feet". Do you
>>> mean in
>>> > beam or in length? The outer beam already buries all the way through
>>> the ww
>>> > hull to the ww side. Sorry, I am just not following. Can you elaborate?
>>> >
>>> > I was not really trying to shorten the boat for slip storage,
>>> although I can
>>> > see that could help when I rent a slip. I have a dock, so I wasn't that
>>> > concerned with that. I just want the boat shortened for trailering.
>>> I am not
>>> > sure of the max height I can trailer without permits, etc, so 8' bow
>>> > extensions that hinged up would take my height to about 13 feet, which
>>> > I
>>> > thought was probably too high.
>>> >
>>> > - Gardner
>>> >
>>> > On Sat, Jun 21, 2008 at 12:12 AM, Robert <cateran1949@
>>> >
>>> > > -I can see how to get another 5 feet or so by making the cabin edges
>>> > > strong enough to allow the outer beam to have a bury of 2' into the
>>> > > ww
>>> > > hull. This would allow the through beam rudders and still have plenty
>>> > > of narrowing for slips. Still reckon a hinge on top would allow the
>>> > > bows relatively easy shortening for being left in a slip
>>> > > You have worked out the tolerances pretty fine. I reckon it should
>>> > > work-- In harryproa@yahoogrou
>>> <harryproa%40yahoog
>>> > > "gardnerpomper" <gardner@>
>>> > > wrote:
>>> > > >
>>> > > > I have posted new versions of my ideas for a 50' trailerable in the
>>> > > Gardner's Layout folder, if
>>> > > > anyone is interested.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > The idea for this boat is one that can be trailered, or shipped in
>>> > > > a
>>> > > container, but is ordinarily
>>> > > > left in a slip, so is just collapsed to a 12' beam. This allowed me
>>> > > to basically move the seating
>>> > > > out from the galley area, so that I can have a real galley, as well
>>> > > as a queen and a single.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > I am retaining the idea of bows that remove for trailering or
>>> > > containerizing, because that lets
>>> > > > me put a very long lw hull without the awkwardness of trying to
>>> > > trailer a 50' boat.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > I have absolutely no idea how the steering would be set up on this,
>>> > > how the rudders would
>>> > > > mount, etc. I am hoping that someone can help me out with ideas for
>>> > > that. I would be willing
>>> > > > to go with fixed rudders if I really have to in the leeward hull,
>>> > > but I don't want a draft of more
>>> > > > than 30". Lift up rudders would be preferable.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Thanks for any feedback.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > - Gardner
>>> > > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> >
>>>
>>
>
>
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