Yes, I wonder if carbon masts can made strong enough and light enough
for this to work. I have no experience with carbon fibre.
--- In harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au, Doug Haines <doha720@... > wrote:
>
> the mast is sitting out on the end of the boom though fro the L
>
> --- On Sat, 25/10/08, fitzgeraldskhayyam <omarkhayyam@ ...> wrote:
> From: fitzgeraldskhayyam <omarkhayyam@ ...>
> Subject: [harryproa] Re: Alternate rig styles
> To: harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au
> Date: Saturday, 25 October, 2008, 3:01 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sorry I didn't make it clear re the pvc. I just had
that hanging
>
> around so used it for the model. No intention of using it for full
>
> size. What's holding the mast up? Itself, like the ballestron.
Thanks
>
> for the link to Brian Eiland. Furling or reefing wouldn't be any
>
> different to any other system. As to the forces, then yes, this is
>
> what I don't know about. I don't know how much bending and twisting
>
> carbon masts can take. I think the L rig is the simplest and least
>
> likely to be troublesome in that way. Could be made as 1 or 2
pieces.
>
>
>
> The idea of having 2 small jibs rather 1 large one is to keep the
>
> centre of force lower as well as less strain on parts - other than
>
> the main step.
>
>
>
> Each sail can be set without having to be changed every tack, its
>
> really only a double ballestron system I was thinking of - so 2
>
> sheets rather than 1. If I had a lot of tacking to do maybe I'd
just
>
> leave one rig down.
>
> the Kproa system was interesting but I couldn't quite make out how
it
>
> worked, I'm only simple you know.
>
>
>
> --- In harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au, Arto Hakkarainen
<ahakkara@ .>
>
> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > In theory yes. In practice: well someone must first figure
out all
>
> the details. Still there is one issue that I don't like about
dynarig
>
> that is common with this approach: instant depowering. On
>
> regular free- standing rig or aerorig/easyrig if you just dump
the
>
> sheet it will depower. No such option for dynarig. Dynarig will not
>
> be totally depowered if it is up due to built in camber. That is
why
>
> I abandoned the idea of dynarig.
>
> > Â
>
> > Arto
>
> >
>
> > --- On Fri, 10/24/08, Gardner Pomper <gardner@ > wrote:
>
> >
>
> > From: Gardner Pomper <gardner@ >
>
> > Subject: Re: [harryproa] Alternate rig styles
>
> > To: harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au
>
> > Date: Friday, October 24, 2008, 4:18 PM
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Sorry.. typos in that first post. Here is the corrected version:
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I have thought that the offset boom and gaff from the hoyt rig
>
> would also be a good way to construct a dynarig. Todd showed in his
>
> model tests that the dynarig has alot of synergy with a proa.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > My idea would be to build a dynarig by offsetting the boom and
gaff
>
> to the leeward side of the mast, and attaching the sail to the mast
>
> at the midpoint (with hoops or sailtrack or something). With the
12%
>
> draft of a dynarig, it should easily fit. Then you can cover the
>
> leeward side of the sail, from boom to gaff with more sailcloth,
>
> fully enclosing the mast, so the mast no longer has to be an
>
> aerodynamic shape; it could just be a box section. Then would give
>
> you a reefable wing version of the dynarig. That should be even
more
>
> efficient that the regular dynarig, shouldn't it?
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Thoughts?
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > - Gardner
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 8:04 AM, Arto Hakkarainen
<ahakkara@yahoo.
>
> com> wrote:
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Speaking of alternate rigs: what is the view on this forum on
Hoyt
>
> offset rig?
>
> > Â
>
> > http://www.garryhoy t.com/id19. html
>
> > Â
>
> > There are donwsides that I can see but also good ones. Having two
>
> of these would help make easy and balanced rig. Opinions?
>
> > Â
>
> > Arto
>
> >
>
> > --- On Fri, 10/24/08, Mike Crawford <jmichael@gwi. net> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > From: Mike Crawford <jmichael@gwi. net>
>
> >
>
> > Subject: Re: [harryproa] Alternate rig styles
>
> > To: harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au
>
> > Date: Friday, October 24, 2008, 2:28 PM
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >  I've been fascinated by the mast-aft design for a while. Not
>
> enough to consider one, but it's nice to see people think outside
the
>
> box.
>
> >
>
> > Â The Running Tide Yachts site is still working, with details at:
>
> >
>
> > Â Â Â http://runningtidey achts.com/ sail/Â Â Â and
>
> > Â Â Â http://www.runningt ideyachts. com/gamefishing/
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >  There are two reasons I wouldn't get one of these. The first
is
>
> that I'd like a boat that is demountable and transportable over
roads
>
> in a reasonable amount of time. With all that rigging, it's hard
to
>
> imagine being able to assemble and disassemble the boat as quickly
as
>
> one with an unstayed mast. The other reason is that it would be
nice
>
> to be able to short-tack up an inlet in light air without a crew of
>
> winch monkeys dealing with the huge reacher that operates in front
of
>
> the inner forestay.
>
> >
>
> > Â I realize that both of these reasons are moot if you're mostly
in
>
> open water, and/or don't mind paying to keep a large catamaran in a
>
> boatyard.Â
>
> >
>
> > Â More to the topic at hand: this particular rig seems more
suited
>
> to a boat that always points in the same direction, and would be
hard
>
> to implement on a proa.
>
> >
>
> > Â However, someone has worked on a mainsail-less proa:
>
> >
>
> > Â Â Â http://www.kproa. com/
>
> > Â Â Â http://www.kproa. com/conclusion. html
>
> >
>
> > Â I'd probably go with a freestanding una rig or easy rig, but
>
> that's because I've got five miles of upwind sailing to do before
the
>
> water really opens up. That means a lot of tacking or shunting,
and
>
> I imagine the una or easy rigs would simplify the process,
especially
>
> if the wind is light enough to tack instead of shunt.
>
> >
>
> >  Still, it's a very interesting design. Inexpensive sail,
>
> efficient leading edges, no cost of sail track, batten cars, or
>
> batten, nicely-aligned force vectors. If you cruise in open
water,
>
> and don't mind keeping one side to windward all the time (which one
>
> could argue is part of the point in a proa), there's a lot to be
said
>
> for the shunting staysail.
>
> >
>
> > Â Â Â Â Â - Mike
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Â
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > fitzgeraldskhayyam wrote:
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Just some pics regarding some model rigs.
>
> > I've been bothered by the inefficiency of mainsails so this is
>
> > perhaps something that might work.
>
> >
>
> > I don't know the technical ins and outs but do have some
practical
>
> > experience.
>
> >
>
> > Years ago there was a rig designed for cats that had a mast
canted
>
> 5
>
> > degrees forward, a small wishbone boomed main and 2 large jibs -
>
> > cutter rig.
>
> > Didn't catch on, never heard anymore about it.
>
> >
>
> > My mono hull wouldn't sail on main alone, went fine on just jib.
>
> >
>
> > My favourite of the group pictured is the L rig. Don't know if
its
>
> > possible to construct something like that full size, but I
imagine
>
> > like any engineering problem there is a solution.
>
> >
>
> > Any thoughts?
>
> >
>
