Subject: [harryproa] Re: cantarry - racing -
From: "Robert" <cateran1949@yahoo.co.uk>
Date: 3/20/2009, 6:06 AM
To: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au
Reply-to:
harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au

-Not for myself as I prefer the deck space and comfort of a Harry, but if seriously constrained in time for sailing and had to trail a boat, I would go for a narrow schooner monocoque Atlantic 9mlw/6mww with a fold out cockpit, or if I was serious about racing in protected waters, I would go for a carbon Atlantic 9mlw/6m ww with wings to ww

-- In harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au, Doug Haines <doha720@...> wrote:
>
> robert,
>  
> you prefer the atalantic?!
>  
> doug
>
> --- On Fri, 20/3/09, Robert <cateran1949@...> wrote:
>
> From: Robert <cateran1949@...>
> Subject: [harryproa] Re: cantarry - racing -
> To: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au
> Date: Friday, 20 March, 2009, 10:27 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -For general racing I agree, but if you were really pushing the envelope with a super light structure I feel an Atlantic rig gives a slight advantage of righting moment for weight. I think an Atlantic rig could also be an advantage in a narrow monocoque cruising boat designed for easy trailing as the extra righting moment is needed and it would be easier to look after from the ww foldout cockpit. The cabin top could be built with enough bouyancy and the right shape for easy righting. The fold out cockpit could be set up to be allowed to come round a bit more for providing the leverage to bring it round from the boat lying on its side with the top of the mast supporting it from going right over. People have righted the smaller Jarcats by themselves. -- In harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au, Mike Crawford <jmichael@ .> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Why not one very tall mast that allows you to easily reef, such as
> > with a bolt rope luff and a furling boom, that would also allow you reef
> > manually if the mechanics break down? That's a single-sail system that
> > has the benefit of lots of area up high in light wind.
> >
> > Or perhaps the good old schooner rig with two una sails? That will
> > allow a massive amount of sail area with a lower center of effort.
> >
> > Both would have all the forces, sheets, and booms in the same
> > location, with as much sail area as you want to carry.
> >
> > You're right in that you won't get the most out of your boat if you're
> > too worried about capsizing. That's why I'd want the masts in the lw
> > hull -- if I know I can pop back up from a knockdown, I'm much more
> > likely to find the performance edge and hover near it than if I know a
> > knockdown will be costly and/or require a lot of assistance.
> >
> > That said, the ww mast just for light airs certainly would not be a
> > capsize issue.
> >
> > - Mike
> > / /
> >
> > Doug Haines wrote:
> > >
> > > I was supposing that a ww mast would be smaller than the lw one, you
> > > could lower the height of the lw mast then and take everything off of
> > > the ww mast when it is fresh.
> > > point the ww mast into the wind.
> > > its really a light wind help I guess.If you get too worried about
> > > capsizing you might not get the most out of your boat.
> > > what happens to your flying/trying not to capsize when there is
> > > another mast in the ww hull?
> > > it will catch some more wind as it gets lifted upbut will still be
> > > heeling over with the rest of the boat.
> > >
> > > I can't see why it wouldn't be more efficient drive for less heeling,
> > > if the controls make it smiple enough to use.
> > >
> > > I was imaging two easy rigs.
> > > Lw hull one bigger, but not as big as the sandard harryproa mast.
> > >
> > > Doug
> > >
> > > Doing some editing now, showng the better parts, might be several
> > > minutes long, is this too much for you tube pieces?
> > >
> > >
> > > --- On *Thu, 19/3/09, Mike Crawford /<jmichael@ ..>/* wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > From: Mike Crawford <jmichael@ .>
> > > Subject: Re: [harryproa] Re: cantarry - racing -
> > > To: harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au
> > > Date: Thursday, 19 March, 2009, 11:33 PM
> > >
> > >
> > > I can see the advantage of the rig in the ww hull in that there
> > > won't be any interference or turbulence from the ww hull on the sail.
> > >
> > > However, the boat will likely be simpler and lighter if the
> > > primary sailing stresses are all in the lw hull. This way the
> > > fore/aft forces are all in a line in the same hull, and don't have
> > > to be translated through the beams. That's a lot of torsion that
> > > won't have to be designed for.
> > >
> > > I'd rather keep the rig, or rigs, in the lw hull, even if I have
> > > to add another meter in mast height. That will likely be a
> > > stronger and lighter boat, with fewer opportunities for structural
> > > failure.
> > >
> > > Also, for racing, one advantage of rigs in the lw hull is that
> > > you can conceivably pop back up after a capsize. Perhaps you'll
> > > need to use a sea anchor to do it, or have a small boat pull you
> > > back upright, but it shouldn't be hard either way.
> > >
> > > Righting an atlantic proa would be a major undertaking, and
> > > could not be done alone or with a small boat assisting.
> > >
> > > This would matter to me if I'm racing and pushing the boat to
> > > its limits..
> > >
> > > It's rather disturbing to fly a hull on a boat when you know
> > > that a capsize will result in the boat going turtle, which will
> > > inevitably cause thousands of dollars of damage (mast, rigging,
> > > masthead insruments) if the water depth is less than the mast height.
> > >
> > > - Mike
> > >
> > >
> > > Arto Hakkarainen wrote:
> > >> The most efficient racing rig would probably be high aspect ratio
> > >> upwind rig on ww hull with possibility to add extras on lw hull
> > >> (as light spars and rig as possible). Since there is plenty of
> > >> righting moment rig could be very high aspect and therefore
> > >> efficient upwind if designed and made correctly. Low aspect
> > >> reaching sail on lw hull for speed when not hard on the wind.
> > >> Crab claw theoretically would be great reaching sail but could be
> > >> too far out in reality...
> > >>
> > >> --- On Thu, 3/19/09, Robert <cateran1949@ yahoo.co. uk> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> From: Robert <cateran1949@ yahoo.co. uk>
> > >> Subject: [harryproa] Re: cantarry - racing -
> > >> To: harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au
> > >> Date: Thursday, March 19, 2009, 12:18 PM
> > >>
> > >> But weight in the right place.
> > >>
> > >> --- In harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au
> > >> <http://us.mc366. mail.yahoo. com/mc/compose? to=harryproa% 40yahoogroups. com.au>,
> > >> Arto Hakkarainen <ahakkara@ .> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > If we are talking about very fast boat the apparent
> > >> wind should be forward of beam all the time. If you use
> > >> spinnaker/screacher /any other downwind sail in windward rig
> > >> it blankets the leeward hull rig. Any downwind sail used
> > >> should be in the rig on lw hull. But the idea of rig on each
> > >> hull is appealing but adds complexity and weight of course.
> > >> >
> > >> > Arto
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> >
>

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