Subject: [harryproa] Re: contrast Rare Bird with gunboat
From: "Robert" <cateran1949@yahoo.co.uk>
Date: 3/26/2009, 7:39 PM
To: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au
Reply-to:
harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au

The cabin was built out of local ply , the rudder out of a lump of wood from under the house, the tiller an axe handle, foam in the cabintop was cut up stryrafoam boxes, rig a second hand Yvonne rig. I got the paint cheap as I knew the paint seller and he had a batch that had been improperly labelled, crossbeams were aluminium scaffolding pipes as was the keel and mast support, ground tackle was given to me, I made up my own Highfield levers for running rigging as I was given an extra large spinnaker, I found a pile of solar cells being thrown out, as well as motor cycle batteries. This was in PNG were there was a lot of waste as people didn't really understand how to fix tings and there was lots of Oz money going into the country.

Round the same time I built a house in the bush for under a $1000, using second hand materials form houses I pulled down and local timber that I ripped with a chain saw or split with wedges and adzed.
I am in Eden at the moment but my mother is pretty crook and needs a lot of looking after. Don't know how much longer she is going to go on for, though she may bounce back. I would love to go on B2G but duty prevents. I haven't been on a B2G. The closest I have been to racing in a multi has been trying to pace a traditional sailing canoe race with a paper tiger while in Port Moresby. I was absolutely thrashed.
regards,
robert

--- In harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au, Doug Haines <doha720@...> wrote:
>
> $800 is pretty mean, but its hard to count everything.
>  
> Are you still in Eden?
> Possible to get to B or G?
> How many people does Col want on his boat?
> Sure a before or after try would be allowed, or Robert has already been on RB/
>  
>
> --- On Mon, 23/3/09, Robert <cateran1949@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: Robert <cateran1949@...>
> Subject: [harryproa] Re: contrast Rare Bird with gunboat
> To: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au
> Date: Monday, 23 March, 2009, 2:39 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
> You certainly got things together nice and quickly. I am impressed
>
> I have all the tools and materials suitable for a table. I propose to use a fidge pump for vacuuming. I have been very mean in my builds in the past. $800 for a 23'tri out of aluminium, but that was nearly 30 years back. I even made my own jig saw blades and sanding discs as I couldn't get what I wanted in PNG. I plan to use minimum bog. As long as the underwater sections are fair and there are no dags to catch on. I don't want a mirror finish. The deck and cabin tops needs nonslip.
>
> --- In harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au, Doug Haines <doha720@ > wrote:
> >
> > Hi Robert,
> >  
> > you're listing materials looks alright except for paint would be a few thousand wouldn't it.
> > Anitfouling alone would be $500?
> > I tis amazing how much you ACTUALLY spend. When looking back at harriette building, I added in stuff like boat yard for 1 month ($200), petrol to drive boat and gear up and back from Mandurah ($50).
> > Sanding disks, one grinder blow out, screws, rope, nets, paint, brushes for paint, brushes for epoxy. masking tape, Polyurehtane glue, melamine chipboard, rope to tie down the stuff on the car roof, list goes into lots of extra stuff that aren't ending up in the boat but you need to get from hardware stores for some reason.
> > That excluded tools etc I already had, and I still came to about $2,000 spent.
> > I don't know why or how to do things better, perhaps slowing down so you can think of a better way.
> > Still if it is worth that much then that's what it's worth.
> >  
> > Doug
> >  
> > How's the brain today?
> >
> > --- On Sun, 1/3/09, Robert <cateran1949@ ...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: Robert <cateran1949@ ...>
> > Subject: [harryproa] Re: contrast Rare Bird with gunboat
> > To: harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au
> > Date: Sunday, 1 March, 2009, 7:52 PM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I wouldn't normally have thought about comparing a Harryproa against a
> > Gunboat. The Gunboat is supposed to be about speed and accommodation
> > for big money but when I noticed the 'real world' reaching speed in a
> > bit of a sea for a Gunboat 48 in a race in the Carribean, I was not
> > impressed, especially for the money. I did not think it performed as
> > well as a Schionning waterline for much less money. Or, for that
> > matter, a cruising Harryproa such as Rare Bird. Given a simple choice,
> > not taking into account the money aspect, I actually think I would go
> > for an Australian performance cruising multihull over a Gunboat after
> > seeing examples of its performance in real conditions. There may have
> > been extenuating circumstance but I haven't heard them yet
> >
> > Money no limit for a performance cruising boat, I wouldn't want to go
> > more than a 60' Harry as the ability to cruise into small places is
> > reduced. I don't see much advantage in going all carbon and nomex as
> > the payload is already a high proportion of the sailing weight and
> > there are other materials that are tougher, if not as stiff. Part of
> > the value of a Harry is that most of the boat doesn't have to be
> > especially stiff to take the sailing loads. At 60' there is plenty of
> > accommodation, reasonable load carrying capacity and any bigger it
> > starts to become a hassle keeping the place clean and a handful to
> > dock single handed.
> >
> > So ,
> > Money no limit, I would probably go for a 55-60'lw hull 36-40' ww
> > hull with a reasonable bridge deck, basalt fibre skinned over
> > polypropylene honeycomb with an extra internal skin of kevlar and
> > judicious use of carbon where needed (resilience and impact
> > resistance). I would consider J Taylors wing mast concept or two
> > telescoping wing masts. I would try to keep the sailing weight down to
> > 3 tonnes, total displacement to 5 tonnes, and have working sail are of
> > about 110-140m2 or 2/3 that for a wing. I would possibly use a light
> > coloured bamboo veneer on the inside of the accommodation area,
> > providing excellent strength to weight and good looks as well. Apart
> > from the wings, it could probably be built from less than half of the
> > Gunboat 48 to a pretty high quality finish with all the extra
> > dooverlackies I might want for comfort. I believe it would sail so
> > much better than a Gunboat in any sort of sea, which is where a
> > cruising boat has to make good and be much more seaworthy and
> > comfortable.
> >
> > This is only 10-20% longer than I plan to build anyway for under $A50
> > 000 in materials (itemising all the bits came to approximately $31 500
> > so 60% more for the bits I can't think of).
> > 150m2 of skin and bulkheads at $A50/m2, $7 500;
> > 140kg of carbon tow $A6000 for masts, rudderstocks, rudders,
> > occasional reinforcing;
> > another 250kg of glass, basalt and resin $3000,
> > extra materials for crossbeams $2000
> > polycarbonate for windows and hatches $1000;
> > winches, sails, strings and ground tackle, depending what I can find
> > 2nd hand$5000
> > hatches if I can't be stuffed making them $2000
> > outboard $2500
> > Safety gear $2000. navigation lights, internal lights, wiring and
> > compass $400
> > Solar panels and battery $1000
> > fairing, sandpaper and paint $400- I like it smooth underwater and a
> > non slip surface to walk on, but am not too fussed about perfection.
> >
> > Extra for cruising
> > Compost toilet and hand pump solar shower.$400
> > small gas cooker plus bottle above waterline with drainage to outside $100
> > geotek fabric for under mattresses and mattresses $400
> > .. If the admiral starts to have a hand in the comfort aspects of it it
> > could easily blow out another $20 000.
> >
> > -- In harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au, andrew fennell <amfitrite@ ..> wrote:
> > >
> > > I think what you get with a gunboat is 2 of Dick Newick's famous
> > tryptic:
> > >
> > > ie Speed and Accomodation
> > >
> > > The price you pay is, well, the price you pay! You also (I imagine, not
> > > having seen one close up) probably get a superb quality production boat
> > > finish (as opposed to a poor production boat finish -I'm sure we've seen
> > > plenty of those) and probably superb back up in terms of
> > after-sales. ...ok
> > > I'm guessing now!
> > >
> > > Trying to compare a gunboat to a harryproa for me is not really
> > viable (my
> > > opinion - no offence Robert!) They are just so different, Rob Denney's
> > > concept -I believe- is much more about the other Newick configuration
> > >
> > > ie Speed and Low-cost
> > >
> > > coupled with build-simplicity (definitely not a newick quality) and
> > > system-simplicity. ..
> > >
> > > I'm not saying that Harryproa's don't have accomodation - they do
> > but not on
> > > the scale of the gunboat..
> > >
> > > --
> > > I'll leave this with an interesting question:
> > >
> > > If you had gunboat money would you spend it on an all-carbon
> > > supersize-harryproa or a gunboat. (Answers on the back of a
> > fag-packet down
> > > the pub please!)
> > >
> > > andyf
> > > ps hello Mr Denney, hope all is well - congrats on getting the first
> > boats
> > > done in china, no mean feat!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 2009/2/28 Robert <cateran1949@ ...>
> > >
> > > > I love Rare Bird and suspect it might have the best motion and I get
> > > > seasick, but would be glad to be on any one of them
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au
> > <harryproa%40yahoog roups.com. au>, Doug
> > > > Haines <doha720@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I hear that the Gunboat is a normal cat but all carbon so expensive
> > > > and quicker?
> > > > > Still you could save weight in areas other than hull material, etc.
> > > > Chucking stuff out for a race like water, fuel gear would change .
> > > > > Hope HP's are going to try hard in B-G.
> > > > > Which of the popssible 3 boats over there would you want to be on?
> > > > > HArigami might be fun.
> > > > >
> > > > > --- On Sat, 28/2/09, Robert <cateran1949@ > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > From: Robert <cateran1949@ >
> > > > > Subject: [harryproa] Re: contrast Rare Bird with gunboat
> > > > > To: harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au <harryproa%40yahoog roups.com. au>
> > > > > Date: Saturday, 28 February, 2009, 12:16 PM
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Looking at the sailing performance of the gunboat recently, I was
> > > > > disappointed in its speed on a close reach. I have been hesitant to
> > > > > compare one to a Vis, but I suspect that a Vis could outperform
> > it in
> > > > > similar conditions, being better able to maintain drive in choppy
> > > > > conditions. I also suspect that many of the Australasian performance
> > > > > cruisers would do at least as well at less than half the price.
> > Cross
> > > > > fingers for at least one entry in the Gladstone race to see how the
> > > > > performance compares.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

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