Subject: Re: [harryproa] Light air sails suited to seasons
From: Doug Haines
Date: 4/23/2009, 10:51 PM
To: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au
Reply-to:
harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au



hi,
 
reading multihull anarchy, farrier regatta topic:
 
"Unbelievable stuff - really edgy sailing amongst the top boats, with stuffs, spinouts, cavitating rudders, cuts, bruises and bruised egos"
"Downwind, our biggest problem on my Sprint was rudder cavitation at speed"
 
and a solution (attached file picture) http://www.f-boat.com/pages/news/F-32Rudder.html
 
with the extra sideways load when using a single rudder aren't harryproas inline to encounter this similar scenario?
 
doug
 
 

--- On Fri, 24/4/09, Doug Haines <doha720@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

From: Doug Haines <doha720@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [harryproa] Light air sails suited to seasons
To: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au
Date: Friday, 24 April, 2009, 11:25 AM

it sounds like you need a boat to gt to the caribbean

--- On Fri, 24/4/09, Mike Crawford <jmichael@gwi. net> wrote:

From: Mike Crawford <jmichael@gwi. net>
Subject: Re: [harryproa] Light air sails suited to seasons
To: harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au
Date: Friday, 24 April, 2009, 2:47 AM

<<what are these strange people (chesapeake bay area) talking about?>>

  :-)  Strange indeed.  Add the Maine coast (U.S. Northeast corner) to the list of light-wind areas. 

  Half the time in summer we have decent wind, 10-15 knots.  The other half it's 0-5, 0-10, or 5-10. 

  I only want to pass 15 knots every now and then, just to remember the feeling.  But I do want to be able to sail when I have time, and if that means a five-knot day, then I want a boat that will be fun.

  We get lots of wind in the winter, but it often gets cold enough to freeze salt water in bays and inlets, so that's not really my idea of sailing fun.  If nothing else, it makes it tough to find a place to moor the boat without getting damaged.

  You have both my envy (for your winds, for having built a boat, and for having made the time to cruise it), and respect (for all of the previous, minus the winds).

       - Mike


Doug Haines wrote:
hello again,
what is the expected usage under 5 knots is that common conditions?
we (perth) finally have come to the end of summer weather and gone are 15-20  knot easterly followed by 20 knot plus seabreezes. the next few days not forecast above 15knopts at all, so many calms, near calms and 5-10 kno t times likely.
really become accustomed to plenty wind almost every day for last 6 months!
what are these strange people (chesapeake bay area) talking about?
doug

--- On Fri, 24/4/09, Mike Crawford <jmichael@gwi. net> wrote:

From: Mike Crawford <jmichael@gwi. net>
Subject: Re: [harryproa] Light air sails and multihull comparison
To: harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au
Date: Friday, 24 April, 2009, 12:49 AM


  That's probably my error.  I was using figures from http://www.mulihull maven.com .  The harryproa.com website didn't list mast height off the water, which was an important spec for me, so when google turned it up at multihullmaven, I just used those numbers.

  As I mentioned in the post I intended to be off-group, I don't think I'll be bothering with sail shape, center of effort, boom length, and so forth.  Once I'm confident I can get a boat with the specs I'd like, I'll ask people more expert than myself to come up with the exact dimensions.  I just don't know enough about sail design to do it myself. 

  Not that I'd discourage anyone from doing their own calculations.  There are just so many hours in the day, and I'd rather spend some extra money on expertise so I can use my time to generate revenue, work on our ongoing house design, and spend time sailing/loafing/ playing with my wife and daughter.  I may or may not try to build the boat myself. 

---

  Back to the sail area, it's also possible that one wouldn't want an SA/D over 60, nor would one need to be able to compete with cheekee monkee.  Perhaps an "extreme" SA/D of just 50 would be fine.   CM has an SA/D of 44 with just the jib and main (assuming a 100% jib, which is probably not the case).

  The Harry will be a friendly cruise-able boat, with two semi-private double bunks, that could be sailed by a non-sailor with very little training.  I've got friends who won't go out with me in heavier weather because they don't feel they can safely get us back to the dock in such a high-performance boat if I somehow become incapacitated. 

  So, if you're singlehanding or family-cruising with non-experts, the ability to be sailed by a novice (and thus, also, the ease of singlehanding) , is a serious selling point.

  Cheekee monkee could never hope to compete in these areas.  If it can beat the Harry (even though the Harry will have a longer waterline) on some points of sail, that's fine. 

  Fun, safety, and lazy sailing potential come first, along with the ability to move better than most  boats in most wind ranges.  Having the option to take on a pure speed machine like a highly-customized F-31 it truly not necessary, and would just be icing on the cake.  For me, that is.

---

  Of course, none of this means that it wouldn't be fun to build some hounds onto the mast for a self-furling headsail. 

  All my arguments for a simple easyrig-only solution aside, I'd probably do this just to see what happens. 

  Imagine the 755 sf Harry with an extra 300 sf of non-overlapping headsail.  That's an SA/D of almost 90.  Whoa....  It would be neat to try that out, at least once, in a four knot wind just to see what happens.

  You could test the system with a single used sail to start just to see how easy or hard it really is, even with a shorter mast.  It will still probably be more than fast enough, and you could always spend a few thousand dollars on a taller mast later on if you need to get more extreme.

  That's probably a very solid strategy.  Everything else is just talk.  I can't say what Rob would suggest, but in matters of religious design arguments, he often takes the very wise position of "Sounds great.  Why don't you give it a shot and let us know how it works."

       - Mike


Gardner Pomper wrote:
Hi Mike,

>
>   Note that the visionarry rig is 860 sf, and the rig on my theoretical
> Harry is 755 sf, so it's a bit smaller.
>

Did the Rob change the Visionarry rig after the website stopped being
updated, because it is listed at 774 sq ft on
www.harryproa. com/visionarry. htm, which I figured is close enough to
your numbers.

Btw, I am not against just using a taller mast. Regardless of how big
I make the sail plan, I am going to have to have a mast that comes
apart into 2 sections to fit in a container. a 39' mast, with the boom
9' up will never give me enough sail area.

What are the boom dimensions you are using to get that sq ft of sail?

I am just exploring alternatives. Maybe it is time for Rob to hop in
and just remind me that I am an idiot and I can switch to some other
silly idea <grin>

- Gardner



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