Hi Rob,
Not sure about the clingfilm manufacturer - the label is in
Thai. Will see what I can find out about the thickness - it isn't much thicker than kitchen use film, but tough enough you can stand on it to unroll it without puncturing it (just once). I do all my work in bare feet, to reduce dust and punctures.
The ground I use is a fairly smooth concrete carport (i.e., garage without walls) floor. Not as smooth as a formica table probably, but no seams. Since I only do the top side, the core smooths out any minor unevenness and probably would hide any local uneveness less than 1/2 inch. My maximum local unevenness is maybe 1 millimeter.
The carport works fine for the dory, and may be ok for an elementarry size boat. Bigger than that I will need to make a bigger carport or shed, which is not a problem for me as I have 4 hectares to work with.
What I do is unroll the film, put the foam core on it, which mostly keeps it flat - beer bottles work pretty well to stop it from clumping in the breeze. Then I unroll the top layer of film and re-roll it (so I can unroll it quickly after the resin is applied. Then I apply the fiberglass (top side only), peel ply and vacuum set up. Then I unroll the film and do a dry run to check that the vacuum will work.
After that I re-roll the film, apply the resin by pouring and rolling (or pushing it around by gloved hand), unroll the film and apply vacuum. I am not doing infusion, just vacuum to remove extra resin. Very simple really. I don't see much need to do two sides at once and hence no need for infusion.
I have had no problems seeing where the film is, maybe because it is a bit thicker or maybe because I have shaded outdoor light, which is easier to see film in, instead of shop lights.
For panles much bigger than 1 square meter this really works much better with assistants to control the film when unrolling after applying resin. It can get quite anxiety provoking and messy if it starts clumping with a time limit. Other than that step I have so far done everything by myself.
I hadn't heard about bleeder cloth until today - guess I didn't do enough research, but I am happy with my work around. I think I still need a bit of peel ply to keep the vacuum hose from sticking to the panel, or at least to make it easier to take off - I find it difficult to remove the hose when resin accumulates without peel ply. But the peel ply can be only about 6 inches wide, just enough to make the hose easy to remove. The vacuum hose is 5/8 inch clear plastic hose cut in a spiral that I lay around the panel and inside the shop vac hose. The cling film covers everything.
Best regards
Herb
--- In harryproa@yahoogrou
>
> G'day,
>
> Good stuff! I have tried cling film in the past, but it was too hard
> to see where it was and wasn't. That was only 300mm wide. Any idea
> what thickness yours is? And who is the manufacturer?
>
> How do you keep the sheet flat if you bag it on the ground?
>
> It sounds as if you are not using a bleeder cloth? This goes on top
> of the preforated plastic on top of the peel ply and soaks up surplus
> resin, so there is none available for lumps.
>
> If you are sanding the panels anyway, peel ply is not required. The
> ATL resin is great stuff, has out times of several days if required.
>
> regards,
>
> Rob
>
> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 1:33 PM, Herb Desson <squirebug@.
> >
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I have been experimenting with a 4 meter dory before starting on a harryproa
> > and have learned a few things that might be interesting.
> >
> > 1. I have found some large rolls of 1.4 meter wide heavy duty
> > clingfilm/saranwrap at the local diy. It has all the usual properties of
> > clingfilm - sticking together, clumping etc. But also doesn't need to be
> > taped and holes can be plugged after applying vacuum just by dropping a a
> > small piece on the hole. Holes are very rare so far. I am using a shop vac
> > at the moment (may change later) and find that the film makes a good seal
> > around the non-smooth hose. I have had no problems with the film breaking
> > under vacuum.
> >
> > 2. With the cling film I don't need a table - just use a double length of
> > film at least for narrow panels, which is all I need for the dory. This
> > saves a lot of set up time as I just use any smooth piece of ground instead
> > of a table. This means working on the ground, which has lead to some aching
> > hamstrings, but I am adapting and my assistants (all Thais) don't understand
> > why my hamstrings hurt.
> >
> > 3. Given my experience to date with the film I don't expect any problems
> > with wide panels.
> >
> > 4. The nylon I have used as peel ply is allowing lumps of resing to remain
> > in the panels. This is partly because the resin I have used so far sets too
> > quick in the Thai weather, which is usually well above 80 fahrenheit. I have
> > located a supplier 1000 kilometers from here (ATOL) who say they can solve
> > that problem.
> >
> > 5. I will try using only the cling film for most of the panel (except where
> > the vaccum hose goes). This will allow me to see lumps and press them out
> > when I have more pot life. It will mean the cling film won't come off, but
> > as I will paint the hull, a light sanding prior painting (which would be
> > necessary anyway) will remove it (I hope).
> >
> > I am very happy with the clingfilm and think it solves lots of problems.
> > Also, I don't see any reason to bother with a table.
> >
> > Best regards
> > Herb
> >
> > --- In harryproa@yahoogrou
> >>
> >> G'day,
> >>
> >> You will not save much by bagging the small panels individually. This
> >> is what blew the budget on Sol 1. It is quicker to nest them on a big
> >> sheet and cut them out afterwards.
> >>
> >> Wet laminating and bagging both sides in one hit is much quicker than
> >> setting up for infusion. Sealing the bag is time consuming, but good
> >> preparation and practice speeds it up, as does good tacky tape and a
> >> hole free bag.
> >>
> >> Tape down one long edge of the bag before you start wetting out, apply
> >> the tacky tape to the other edges and roll the bag and cover it to
> >> keep it out of harm's way. Run a piece of tape over the area to be
> >> sealed to so that resin cannot get onto it. Put the cloth on the
> >> table and have the drilled core, inner skin and vac stack all ready to
> >> go. Wet out the outer skin with a fluffy roller/, spread any wet
> >> areas with a squeegee. No need to be too careful. Wet out the core
> >> with a squeegee. Put the core in place and the next layer of glass on
> >> it. Wet it out with the fluffy roller. Remove the protective tape
> >> and apply the vac stack. The trick to long layup times is to spread
> >> the resin quickly. Leaving it in the pot is a disaster. An assistant
> >> to measure and mix resin is a good plan, as is premeasuring the resin
> >> and hardner so they only have to be mixed and stirred.
> >>
> >> Use the amount of resin in the absorber material (I use old carpet,
> >> costs nothing) as a guide to how much resin you need to apply next
> >> time. If it goes off too quickly, use slower resin, then throw a
> >> tarp over the vac bag with a couple of blower heaters underneath to
> >> speed it up.
> >>
> >> Fitting out and finish are the difference between boats I build and
> >> those built by professionals and proud owner builders. Your shell
> >> will take longer than mine as it is more complex, and you are
> >> learning what you can and can't get away with. My interior will be
> >> bare, to start with, the decks and beam tops will have non slip on
> >> them, the bottom antifouling, and the rest will be bare resin, at
> >> least for the first few months. Partly to show off what can be done
> >> off the table, partly so I can make any adjustments that become
> >> necessary. Suggest you get a breakdown of hours and materials and see
> >> how they compare. It is very difficult for builders to quote using
> >> a new build system, so the more it is broken down, the easier it is to
> >> fine tune the quote.
> >>
> >> regards,
> >> rob
> >>
> >
> >
>
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