Subject: Re: [harryproa] Re: preglassed panels....weights
From: Rob Denney
Date: 6/13/2009, 6:43 AM
To: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au
Reply-to:
harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au



G'day,

Harry bows are pretty similar height to trimaran float bows of a
similar weight. Probably a little higheractually. Bow of the main
hull of a tri has to be high to support the big loads from the
forestay and to keep it high enough to allow crew to work on it and
give room inside without looking strange.

Henny, 3m hammer drop and no damage? Sounds over built to me. ;-)

regards,

Rob

On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 6:11 PM, Doug Haines<doha720@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
> $30?
>
> are you talking about 15degrees angle of the bowpoint?
>
> no one answered the why not full HEIGHT bows eg like trimaran floats.
>
> doug
>
> --- On Sat, 13/6/09, Robert <cateran1949@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
> From: Robert <cateran1949@yahoo.co.uk>
> Subject: [harryproa] Re: preglassed panels....weights
> To: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au
> Date: Saturday, 13 June, 2009, 6:49 PM
>
> -glass at $3/kg: that is a very good price. 15 degrees is pretty sharp but
> it would still give a prismatic coefficient 0f over .8.
> I was thinking below the waterline when being driven moderately, you could
> go to 30degrees, especially with a reverse stem decreasing the shock and
> increasing the time of impact, but allowing better fore aft stability and
> surfing ability with more initial hydrostaic lift and more hydrodynamic
> lifton a long fulcrum.- In harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au, Rob Denney
> <harryproa@. ..> wrote:
>>
>> G'day,
>>
>> Sue reads these posts! The boat is a weekender for the family.
>>
>> The Route de Rhum is huge, both in France and in terms of getting harrys
>> accepted. A full carbon hull would be 300 gsm each side of the foam. I am
>> using 400 glass. As the areas are pretty small, this is a significant, but
>> not enormous saving. The cost difference is significant as carbon cloth
>> costs about $150/kg, glass about $3 and I am paying for it from harry
>> earnings, including the sale of Elementarry, if anyone is interested.
>>
>> Squid is looking for a sponsor, will have a balls to the wall racer if he
>> can find one, otherwise a cruiser when he saves his pennies. The RdR
>> sailors (there are 2 possibilities) are also looking for a sponsor, want
>> to
>> stay quiet until they have one. Both are very experienced short handed
>> sailors.
>>
>> regards,
>>
>> Rob
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 4:27 PM, Doug Haines <doha720@... > wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > hi rob,
>> >
>> > re-read your post and think the fact that you have said that your own
>> > boat
>> > is to be built as a glass boat desrves some topic comment further.
>> > do you like to keep something for the future to aspire to make/own.
>> > thought you'd have gone totally within reasons for best of everything
>> > which
>> > seems to have as of a fair while ago becopme standard to use carbon.
>> > even I was wondering how much more it would be, and costs and weights.
>> > I can see the route de rhum is a big event, but is that not open to all
>> > in
>> > an open division.
>> >
>> > maybe you could share the calculation total on glass as versus carbon
>> > with
>> > us.
>> > as a harryproa flagship it would be nice to see it skimpd on nothing.
>> > otherwise it's a cruising family weekender, which is it going to be?
>> > a cruiser / racer.
>> > what is squid wanting?
>> > and who exactly asked for a boat in the route de rhum? is there a
>> > cruising
>> > division as well?
>> >
>> > doug
>> >
>> > --- On *Thu, 11/6/09, Rob Denney <harryproa@. ..>* wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > From: Rob Denney <harryproa@. ..>
>> > Subject: Re: [harryproa] Re: preglassed panels....weights
>> > To: harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au
>> > Date: Thursday, 11 June, 2009, 4:58 PM
>> >
>> > Not sure what 3.5 kg panel you are referring to, but I calculate panel
>> > weight as follows:
>> >
>> > weight of glass = weight of resin so weight of glass *4 plus core
>> > thickness
>> > in metres * weight per cubic metre (80 is near enough for both foam and
>> > polycore, cedar is 350, kiri 290) plus 200 gsm per side for foam and
>> > polycore, 50 gsm per side for timber.
>> >
>> > so 400 gsm glass either side of 10mm foam will be (4*0.4) + (0.01*.08)+(
>> > 2*.2) = 2.8 kgs per sq m.
>> >
>> > regards,
>> > Rob
>> >
>> > On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 2:47 PM, Doug Haines <doha720@yahoo.
>> > co.uk<http://uk.mc264. mail.yahoo. com/mc/compose? to=doha720@ ...>
>> > > wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> as usual, I am not too sure what you're on about, but sounds possible.
>> >>
>> >> I am using up odd bits of core to make shelves/tablette/ bunk so had to
>> >> shape and work lots of bits. took all day long and very fiddly. a piece
>> >> of
>> >> foam you can make a pencil line and cut it with a knife and voila!
>> >>
>> >> this is mostly 5mm and some 10mm, the bigger thick panels would have
>> >> even
>> >> bigger holes .. to fill!
>> >>
>> >> On panel weights, I was starting to list the per sqm weights....
>> >>
>> >> sidecar - elementarry, 5mm core and 260g db: 1.0 kg glass/resin + 400kg
>> >> foam or 1.4 kg kiri core. plus wet out of foam I think was about 200g
>> >> per
>> >> sqm. Is there a wet out /soak in initial amount of resin to coat onto
>> >> kiri?
>> >>
>> >> anyway that's 2.0 kg persqm of foam / glass panel
>> >> or 3.0 kg/sqm of kiri / glass.
>> >>
>> >> not sure how much bog counts as, seems like it uses up heaps of resin,
>> >> but
>> >> most of that is sanded off again.
>> >> then paint, especially anitfoul must be heavy.
>> >>
>> >> then add up all tapes across joins, reinforcing double layer glass at
>> >> mast, beams, plus bulkheads, fitting attachments, and you can total the
>> >> whole hull ( simple to start with lw hull first). It is called a
>> >> composite
>> >> boat because it is cimposed of many smaller parts.
>> >>
>> >> What was Rob's 3.5 kg panel weight made of?
>> >>
>> >> Doug
>> >> Mandurah today
>> >>
>> >> --- On *Thu, 11/6/09, Robert <cateran1949@ yahoo.co.
>> >> uk<http://uk.mc264. mail.yahoo. com/mc/compose? to=cateran1949@ ...>
>> >> >* wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> From: Robert <cateran1949@ yahoo.co. uk<http://uk.mc264. mail.yahoo.
>> >> com/mc/compose? to=cateran1949@ ...>
>> >> >
>> >> Subject: [harryproa] Re: preglassed panels
>> >> To: harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au<http://uk.mc264. mail.yahoo.
>> >> com/mc/compose? to=harryproa@ yahoogroups. com.au>
>> >> Date: Thursday, 11 June, 2009, 3:53 PM
>> >>
>> >> Have you tried the right primer on the polyprop before bogging. I have
>> >> used primer to get a good grip for painting a polyprop bumper bar.
>> >> Depends what foam it is cheaper than. I like it, apart from the price,
>> >> for
>> >> its ability to take impact. Some of the other foams disintegrate under
>> >> impact and the good ones cost a lot more.
>> >> It is possible to seal edges by heating, but on a long section it is
>> >> too
>> >> easy to stretch the edge and put the panel out of shape. . It should be
>> >> possible to do about 60cm a time and nick the end of each section
>> >> before
>> >> heat pressing to avoid this.
>> >> For internal edge finishing I was thinking of a routed out channel in a
>> >> piece of timber to slip over the edge.
>> >> how necessary is it to bog all the joints rather than simply putting
>> >> another strip of tape to stiffen it
>> >>
>> >> It would certainly be easier to just use foam
>> >>
>> >> --- In harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au<http://uk.mc264. mail.yahoo.
>> >> com/mc/compose? to=harryproa% 40yahoogroups. com.au>,
>> >> Doug Haines <doha720@ > wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > word of warning - polycore is a pain to work with, wherever edges
>> >> > join,
>> >> finish or whatever happens at the edge of your panel, it's really a lot
>> >> of
>> >> extra work to fill all the honeycomb holes I find. Just more extra
>> >> jobs/time
>> >> you don't need like when it should be simple panel cut, fit in and join
>> >> becomes bog all the gaps, mix extra resin and the smooth plastic
>> >> honeycomb
>> >> is not very grippy for the bog either.
>> >> > I believe the honeycomb is cheaper by 15-20% over foam core is that
>> >> right? Hmmmn...tough choice.
>> >> > No local polycore in W.A., makes it same price as foam to tansport
>> >> > from
>> >> Queensland, so I have been getting 5mm foam sheets for all the bits of
>> >> stuff
>> >> Lately.
>> >> > Foams good for a quick poly urethane glue join together and sticking
>> >> into place and you are bonded ready to get the epoxy on in not too long
>> >> at
>> >> all.
>> >> > Just saying it is a definite shortfall of the polycoe Robert, sorry
>> >> > to
>> >> throw you out.
>> >> >
>> >> > Doug
>> >> >
>> >> > --- On Thu, 11/6/09, Robert <cateran1949@ ...> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > From: Robert <cateran1949@ ...>
>> >> > Subject: [harryproa] preglassed panels
>> >> > To: harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au<http://uk.mc264. mail.yahoo.
>> >> > com/mc/compose? to=harryproa% 40yahoogroups. com.au>
>> >> > Date: Thursday, 11 June, 2009, 11:41 AM
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > I was looking at the preglassed panels of polycore and was thinking
>> >> > how
>> >> a 12.5mx2.5m preglassed panel could have shallow cuts on the inside of
>> >> the
>> >> bilge to allow bending and only need a little glassing to finish. The
>> >> panels
>> >> don't seem to be that much more than doing it yourself and would take
>> >> some
>> >> of the stress out of things and should come in at a good weight and
>> >> quality
>> >> being heat pressed. There may be no weight difference in the final
>> >> boat. Not
>> >> sure of the costs of transporting 6 large panels compared to packs of
>> >> 50
>> >> small ones. 6.25 x 1.250 might be more feasible. I am waiting to find
>> >> the
>> >> actual price of double bias 440g preglassed to get a better comparison
>> >> of
>> >> price.
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
>

__._,_.___
Recent Activity
Visit Your Group
Yahoo!7 360°

Start a blog

Public or private-

it's your choice.

Y!7 Toolbar

Get it Free!

easy 1-click access

to your groups.

Yahoo!7 Groups

Start a group

in 3 easy steps.

Connect with others.

.

__,_._,___