Subject: Re: [harryproa] Re: Yet another small cruiser layout from Gardner
From: Gardner Pomper
Date: 9/29/2009, 7:27 PM
To: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au
Reply-to:
harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au

 

Hi,


I absolutely agree that 2 engines are wonderful. They make maneuvering SO much easier. I had those on my catamaran as well. My only excuse for not having them here is that I am trying to cut back as much as possible, and 2 engines make for more space and more weight. Also, I have cruised with a small outboard and it is a pain trying to get out to a reef for snorkelling at 3-4 knots. Of course, this design does not scream "minimal" to me anymore <grin> so you might be right!

- Gardner

On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 7:50 AM, George Kuck <chesapeake410@yahoo.com> wrote:
 

Hello Gardner and group,
 
I think you should have two engines,  A small one for dingy and larger one for Harryproa.  You should have two mounts on Harryproa for two engines, one near WW hull and one near LW hull.  The dingy engine can then be used on either the dingy or on the main boat for maneuvering (using both engines)and it can also provide a backup for the larger main engine.  If you are motoring through ICW or canal (with no room to sail) and engine dies you will be glad you have the smaller engine for backukp.  
 
 
 
Happy sailing,
George Kuck
Chestertown, Md. 


--- On Mon, 9/28/09, Rob Denney <harryproa@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Rob Denney <harryproa@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [harryproa] Re: Yet another small cruiser layout from Gardner
To: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au
Date: Monday, September 28, 2009, 10:20 PM


 
> Dinghy ramp - I decided against this. Too much pressure from waves, plus you can't put it in reverse. I think just an engine bracket on the beam right next to the dinghy, so that I can use the boom to lift the motor up and over easily.

I would try it on the dinghy first. Engine brackets hanging off beams
are not trivial. Tie the dinghy on and it will work in reverse, as
long as you are not going too fast in big waes when the dinghy ramp
could catch. Could also make the ramp of mesh so water is not a
problem.

> Rob - I have once again reinvented a bad version of one of your boats. Comparing this to Harrigami, I am trying to reconcile my bare weight (1750 lbs) with Harrigami's bare weight (1210 lbs). I know I added the hardtop and hard deck, but that is about 200 lbs. I have allocated 500 lbs for rig, rudders and crossbeams. Am I overestimating those?

Not so bad. Rig wil be pretty light, beams and rudders similar to
harrigami as the rm is high, although the beams are short. Use 400 db
in the ww hull (300 on lightly loaded bits. 600 between the beams on
the lee hull, 400 the rest.

> Rob - It looks like Harrigami has a 38' mast (mast height = 36'1.5" above wl) and 333 sq ft of sail. What are the dimensions of yoru sails? The racing version has 483 sq ft. Is that with the same height mast?

Can't remember the exact dimensions, the mast was the same for both,
but it was made into a wing mast for the race version.

> Anyway, the final (haha) specs for this boat:
> WW hull
> weight 530 lbs + 100 lbs hardtop
> displacement 1800 lbs
> ppi displacement 192
> waterline beam 2'
> LW hull
> weight 620 lbs
> displacement @ 9" draft: 1611 lbs
> ppi displacement 230 lbs
> draft when ww hull lifts out of water: 18"
> Bare boat weight 1750
> Max payload 1650 lbs
> Bruce number (empty)  1.4         ---- I need more sail area!!
> Bruce number (fully loaded) 1.13

This is not so bad, but does show the need for keeping weight down.
Part of the problem will be the mast needs to be big enough to capsize
the boat, and the small sail area will be more affected by this. A
wing mast would be a better option than a tube.

regards,
rob


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