If you only want to move the rudders through 240 degrees, then going from a pulley at the rudder end going to a slightly larger pulley at the steering end would allow a single tiller extension.
I am working on having a similar sized pulleys throughout with two tillers and allowing the tiller to fold back to allow 1/3 the diameter sweep when shunting.
--- In harryproa@yahoogrou
>
> Twin wheels are not much fun if you are going to do a lot of shunting.
> Better is to have both rudders connected to a single wheel. Means you can't
> use them to crab sideways, but this is not a big deal. If you wanted to do
> this, then a seperate control could be added.
>
> A whipstaff takes up less space than a wheel, but as you point out, they
> struggle with the 360 degree turning circle. I have a few ideas for this
> using adjustable length steering lines, which will be tried on Sol2, where
> cockpit room is at a definite premium.
>
> rob
>
> On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 7:15 AM, Mike Crawford <jmichael@..
>
> >
> >
> >
> > I do love what MaineCat has done with their 30' and 40' models, but am
> > not sure their cockpit scheme fits into the requirements I listed in the
> > previous post.
> >
> > If I have a 12' width limit, and continue to insist on being able to
> > collapse to that width while on the water (to make it easy to get on the
> > trailer with little or no help), I've got to put the leeward hull directly
> > against the windward hull. That doesn't leave much room for the wheels
> > outside the cockpit, and I don't see a 6' cockpit having enough room for a
> > set of wheels as well as a table.
> >
> > In addition, I like Rob's Harry design as rendered on the web site. That
> > open cockpit is the one I'd like, albeit with the wheel in the cockpit like
> > the original Harry design. Perhaps I'll get bored with it and will want
> > more protection after using it for a few years, but for now I want to give
> > the open design a shot. I can always add more windage and weight later.
> >
> > I also have to admit to being particular enough about aesthetics to where
> > some people won't even discuss them with me. The hardtop could either look
> > really good or really bad, so it's something I'd probably want to mock up
> > once I've used the boat for a while. Since I'll likely have the boat built
> > in China or Brazil, the hardtop would not be part of version 1.0.
> >
> > Plus, there are times I really like to be out in the sun and wind.
> > * *
> > ---
> >
> > If you've got ideas about steering from a cockpit with a table, and which
> > wouldn't require me to raise or lower rudders on each shunt (unless I wanted
> > to), I'm certainly open to them. I just can't see how to do that right
> > now.
> >
> > I'd actually prefer a tiller to wheels, but I've not seen a tiller or
> > whipstaff design that would turn the rudders through 180 degrees in order to
> > make the next shunt. You could lift one rudder and put the other in the
> > water, but my guess is that this would take more effort than just turning
> > the wheels. This matters not only in the lazy sailing sense, but also in
> > teaching someone else how to use the boat.
> >
> > I also want to minimize effort on each shunt because I've got five miles
> > of short-tacking in order to get out to open water. A few hours of that
> > during each daysail encourages one to focus on ease-of-use.
> >
> > Which is why the twin wheels are the top choice at the moment.
> >
> > - Mike
> >
> >
> > * *
> > * *
> > Gardner Pomper wrote:
> >
> >
> > Given that you live in Maine and sail with your wife and young daughter, I
> > would suggest that it would be handy to have the table in the cockpit,
> > shielded from the wind with roll up plastics. Then when you are sailing with
> > your wife, you can roll them down and she will stay warm, and when you want
> > more peformance, you can roll them up and eliminate the windage. If you
> > had a permanent hardtop, you would still have some windage from it, but
> > maybe you could have a completely removable bimini that you leave off on
> > your hard-core, flying a hull, sailing days.
> >
> > I know I sailed my Maine Cat 30 in Maine in November in short sleeves,
> > because the roll down plastics really kept the solar heat in. All the
> > monohull sailors (what few I saw) were bundled up in their ski jackets and
> > wool caps, all the way down to Virginia.
> >
> > By keeping the table in the cockpit, the family can all be together when
> > you are sailing. It also lessens the chance that your wife or daughter would
> > get seasick belowdecks.
> >
> > My daughter was 4 when we took off for the Bahamas in our Maine Cat. She
> > could care less about the sailing, but she could be up in the cockpit with
> > us, playing with her Barbies, or coloring, or whatever, right at the table.
> >
> > - Gardner
> >
> > On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 4:56 PM, Mike Crawford <jmichael@..
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> <<By imposing the restriction that it must fit in a standard shipping
> >> container (not high top, or 48' or whatever), I am constrained to prioritize
> >> the minimum of what I can go for>>
> >>
> >> Very nice. Without a hard limit, it's a very slippery slope. And then
> >> soon you end up with a 60' schooner capable of holding 12 people. But
> >> nowhere to moor it, store it, and no budget to build it.
> >>
> >> I'm working towards a similar box rule, but with a different box:
> >>
> >> - The largest boat that can fit under an ICW bridge with a Bruce number
> >> of 2.0.
> >>
> >> - The largest boat that can collapse down to 12' for transportation over
> >> roadways without an escort.
> >>
> >> - The least windage possible given the previous two constraints -- no
> >> bridgedeck cabin or hard bimini, and perhaps without standing room in the
> >> head.
> >>
> >> - The smallest boat that can fit a saloon table inside the ww hull.
> >>
> >> - A boat which can be collapsed on the water and still steered. That
> >> probably means putting the wheel(s) in the cockpit and the rudders on the lw
> >> hull. Which is another reason for wanting a table inside.
> >>
> >> - A rig I can singlehand without using winches on each shunt. I may
> >> sacrifice the ability to shunt without putting down a cold beverage, or
> >> without switching to the opposite bench. But that's as far as I'll go. I
> >> want something an idiot can sail if I become incapacitated.
> >>
> >>
> >> The main reason for the table inside is that while my wife loves to join
> >> me for a sail, she tends to get cold below 70 degrees when it's windy. That
> >> limit seriously shortens the season where we can sail together here in
> >> Maine. Thus, it would be great to have an interior space where she and our
> >> 11-month-old daughter (2 1/2 years by the time we build a proa?) can be warm
> >> and safe.
> >>
> >> Judging from the interior of Blind Date (
> >> http://xa.yimg.
> >> not be too difficult to fit a modest table next to one of the bunks. It
> >> would cut down on privacy for that bunk, and obviously shorten the galley,
> >> which would have to end before the table, but it could be done by flaring
> >> the ww hull.
> >>
> >> The added weight would be minimal, and since it wouldn't add to our
> >> ability to carry more guests or store more gear, it shouldn't affect the
> >> wetted surface area that much.
> >>
> >> But I haven't tried to draw it yet. We're working on house designs, and
> >> while my wife has already agreed to the purchase of four boats since we
> >> started our house plans, it's time for me to stop asking. The proa can
> >> follow the house once we have the resources to do it.
> >>
> >> - Mike
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>