I am not sure if this name is suggesting proclivities of Harry
I reckon if you are going to put a mast in the ww hull, and have two masts, you should put in two of them on the outside of the crossbeams in the ww hull and have a ww cockpit to allow ww sheeting and no problems of going aback. This keeps the loads concentrated and out of the accommodation.
A monocoque 2.4m wide centre section and a 1.5m-2m to ww cockpit on a small boat and the drive should be nicely balanced with rudders on the beams. It also means easy trailerability and quick launching.
I would not want too many strings on holding the mast up as it reduces the ability to spil wind when suddenly blasted by a squall. I have had one very close encounter and I want a rig that can spill wind rather than have the mainsail pressed against the stays and the bows gradually depressing with the stern rising.
--- In harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au, Rob Denney <harryproa@...> wrote:
>
> A biharry gives more sail area down low which is good in a blow, except that
> as the boats are pretty light, you rarely need more sail when it is windy.
> When you do need more sail is in the light, and then the higher it is the
> stronger the wind. Two masts are twice the hassle, weight and cost, and the
> ww one will take up cabin space, although with back/fore stays it can be
> mounted on the cabin.
>
> Stays from the top of the mast casue the mast to bend in the middle when a
> gust hits, which increases the force from the sail. No stays, or 3/4 height
> stays allow the top to fall away, reducing the power. Stays severely limit
> your options if you are accidentally caught aback. Fore/back stays can
> cause a capsize while with athwartship stays you end up sailing running
> before it to get back on course. Can be a problem in a breeze if you have
> not rotated either or both rudders. You have to keep them central or they
> will rotate and probably break, but you need to turn them to get back on
> course. I would make sure the stays can be easily released under load if
> required.
>
> Stays will help keep the mast straight, but they add a large downward
> component. Make sure the hull under the mast is plenty strong.
>
> Keep the trip stories coming.
>
> rob
>
> On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 8:16 PM, Doug Haines <doha720@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > thanks Rob. Any ideas on this idea on a bi harryproa. It could be stayed
> > from both sides with a top connecting rod.
> > I have added a pair of ropes as stays to sidecar. The mast is just back up
> > again now.
> > Staying from one side may help stop a mast from bending too much, but it
> > could jolt against the ropes when pulled up short.
> > I never considered stays, but i have been considering a biharry (binarry -
> > computer lingo). The two concepts seem to match up.
> > Wouldn't you miss not having spreaders and stays anyway?
> >
> > Doug
> >
> > --- On *Mon, 14/6/10, Rob Denney <harryproa@...>* wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: Rob Denney <harryproa@...>
> > Subject: Re: [harryproa] Re: south coast
> >
> > To: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au
> > Date: Monday, 14 June, 2010, 17:18
> >
> >
> > Great effort so far. Hope the next leg is a bit less traumatic. Don't
> > forget it is now winter and that you are in a particularly nasty bit of the
> > world, weather wise.
> >
> > Sol is progressing slowly as I am still fixing a couple of bright ideas
> > which weren't and have been waiting for the big table to be finished for the
> > mast, which it now is. Also doing the drawings for a similar one which we
> > might be starting to build in a couple of weeks.
> >
> > rob
> >
> > On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 3:55 PM, Doug Haines <doha720@yahoo. co.uk<http://uk.mc247.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=doha720@...>
> > > wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Hi Robert,
> >>
> >> I am coming to understand the coast a bit better. The weather too is
> >> different from Perth. For example down here the southern edge of a high
> >> gives westerlies, which at the same time in Perth is actually an easterly.
> >> There is a good forecast this week if you check seabreeze for albany.
> >> Constant moderate w/nw.
> >> I have to look ahead at the possibility of getting stuck at Esperance for
> >> a little while though. If I then got back to Albany, then it would be safe
> >> to leae sidecar inside the inlet on an anchor indefinitely. I have an
> >> invitation to Malaysia/Philippine s for a short cruise. By then mayybe
> >> Spring would be in the air again.
> >>
> >> Doug
> >>
> >> How's the carbon rods and tow machine?
> >> And solitarry Rob?
> >>
> >> --- On *Mon, 14/6/10, robert <cateran1949@ yahoo.co. uk<http://uk.mc247.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=cateran1949@...>
> >> >* wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> From: robert <cateran1949@ yahoo.co. uk<http://uk.mc247.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=cateran1949@...>
> >> >
> >> Subject: [harryproa] Re: south coast
> >> To: harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au<http://uk.mc247.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au>
> >>
> >> Date: Monday, 14 June, 2010, 11:45
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> You may find that you need the flares,etc legally so it is probably not a
> >> bad idea as the fines are liable to be more tha the costs of purchase.
> >> You managed to sort it out yourself and generally have the understanding
> >> and ingenuity to sort most things out. Yo Are learning the limits of your
> >> boat. You are now one of the more experienced Harryproa sailors and have
> >> sailed a significant part of the coast of WA. I have learnt a lot from the
> >> way your boat handles and where things need to be beefed up against awkward
> >> loads.
> >>
> >> Much after Esperance, you'd need, self steering, large quantities of
> >> stimulants, a sea anchor or someone else to do some steering. In a smal boat
> >> you don't wnat to be out there during anything nasty.
> >>
> >> I sketched a self steering windvane system for a multihull using a drag
> >> device made from a bibbed fishing lure to adjust for speed through the water
> >> affecting the apparent wind
> >> --- In harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au<http://uk.mc247.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=harryproa%40yahoogroups.com.au>,
> >> Doug Haines <doha720@> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Hi Robert,
> >> > Â
> >> > I have had a look and see what I think you may have meant about sand
> >> dunes and beaches from here to Esperance. After the huge cliff and boulder
> >> country of the capes and southern most part of WA, it curves back upwards
> >> (North), and the map shows a lot of long sandy stretches. This has
> >> slightly interested bme in Making for Esperance. So if the weather suits,
> >> then sailingshould not be such labour intensive. One should relax and be
> >> tired but noit sore at the end of the day.
> >> > I finished repairs to mast. Now shorter. The problems started off
> >> Denmark. It was a halyard pulley wheel pin. It was a fibreglass pin holding
> >> the bpulley wheel. That disintegrated or sheared through and so the pulley
> >> went somewhere, probably floating away (or sinking), and the main halyard
> >> came down.
> >> > I was doing a very nice broad reach at up arount 8-10 knots and oncourse
> >> for a quick and easy day with only another 40nm to go.
> >> > While standing up at the mast some \very \quick short chop set the boat
> >> rocking side to side and broke the mast.
> >> > I sailed with the mast lifting pole with a halyard at the top. I got
> >> about 2.5 knots.
> >> > I don't have a radio, flares or Epirb.
> >> > Do nyou think I should get any?
> >> > I was unlucky though. The weather was easy, and that situation with
> >> swell backwashing from rockfaces and jostling the boat is not very common
> >> from where i come from.
> >> > Also losing the halyard pin is not expected either.
> >> > So was i inexperienced. Or was I ok since i got in eventually.
> >> > Doug
> >> > Â
> >> > Â
> >> >
> >> > --- On Sat, 29/5/10, Rob Denney <harryproa@ .> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > From: Rob Denney <harryproa@ .>
> >> > Subject: Re: [harryproa] Re: Predicting performance?
> >> > To: harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au<http://uk.mc247.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=harryproa%40yahoogroups.com.au>
> >>
> >> > Date: Saturday, 29 May, 2010, 19:58
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Â
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Sailed on James' junk rigged proa in NZ today. Went very well. A
> >> solution (not the one used by James, whose sail has a lot of twist) to the
> >> sheeting angle conundrum may be to put up a backstay and run the sheetlets
> >> to pulleys tied to it. The sheetlets can then be lead down to the deck and
> >> to the helmsman. Less drag as you have one big bundle, rather than a bunch
> >> of little ones, and the pull is horizontal instead of near vertical.Â
> >> >
> >> > Also sailed the first of the Chinese built harriettes. Build quality
> >> and finish are top class, the finish in particular is better than any
> >> moulded boat, but the boat was not test sailed before it left China so the
> >> sailing details were not well sorted.   Nothing that can't be fixed.Â
> >> Despite this, once I got it going, it was footing as quickly as the bigger,
> >> more powerful junk rig.Â
> >> >
> >> > rob
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 1:56 PM, robert <cateran1949@ yahoo.co. uk>
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Â
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > I had a good look at the sheeting arrangements. They sheet way back to
> >> the stern. This would not really go with the Harryproa configuration of
> >> sheeting back to the ww hull. Posssibly sheet back to a pulley midway
> >> betweent the two bows. I suspect the hinge would have to be made extra
> >> strong to handle the different sheeting arrangements. If the timber
> >> wishbones were skinned with some carbon tow, they should handle the extra
> >> loads. It would probably be worth it aiming for an optimum leeward shape.
> >> > I don't particularly like the wrinkles on the ww side. Possibly cutting
> >> the sails on the bias could smooth things.
> >> >
> >> > I am concerned about the sheeting angles. Hopefully Gardner can sort it
> >> out before I commit.
> >> > regards,
> >> > Robert
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --- In harryproa@yahoogrou ps.com.au, Mike Crawford <jmichael@> wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > Robert,
> >> > >
> >> > > << you could get away with rice bags and still have a reasonable
> >> shape>>
> >> > >
> >> > > Precisely! I'm not sure if it would be a premium racing rig, but
> >> > > while cruising, it seems to me that the average sail shape,
> >> particularly
> >> > > in light winds, would be superior to a bermuda rig.
> >> > >
> >> > > To get the right sail shape with a single skin takes time, in terms of
> >> > > adjusting leech/outhaul/ vang (no vang with fixed boom), and money, in
> >> > > terms of sail cloth, track, and battens.
> >> > >
> >> > > Plus, the battens that work at 40 knots will be to stiff for five
> >> > > knots, and the battens that work at five knots will be too flexible
> >> for
> >> > > 40. I'm tired of yanking on my boom to get the battens to switch over
> >> > > in light winds. I like to sail, but I'm not the kind of guy who would
> >> > > keep three sets of battens on hand in order to have just the right
> >> > > strength for the day's winds. So I have a medium-stiff set that
> >> > > functions in all winds, but really isn't good for light or heavy
> >> weather.
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > <<The strings need not be a big source of drag with dyneema but one
> >> > > would need some gloves.>>
> >> > >
> >> > > Agreed. Though I'd probably try to use dyneema on all the individual
> >> > > lines, feeding into a single wider-diameter mainsheet (one shet per
> >> bow,
> >> > > of course) that would be easier to handle and cleat.
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > <<Some people swear by junk rigs and this makes more sense to me than
> >> a
> >> > > straight junk.>>
> >> > >
> >> > > Particularly if you want to go upwind. I'll daysail much more often
> >> > > than I go cruising, so going upwind is a big deal. A friend of mine
> >> > > says one spends 70% of one's time sailing upwind, and I have to agree.
> >>
> >> > > If I just go out and back for the day, the windward phase is
> >> noticeably
> >> > > slower, and covers a lot more distance, than the leeward phase.
> >> > >
> >> > > - Mike
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > On 5/27/2010 7:29 AM, robert wrote:
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Hi Mike
> >> > > > I am with you on this rig: you could get away with rice bags and
> >> still
> >> > > > have a reasonable shape; the sheet loads are lighter; it's easily
> >> > > > reefable; if the top section rotted out, it would be easy to replace
> >> > > > without wrecking the lines of the sails; there's no sail track to
> >> buy
> >> > > > or jam; and the battens can be low tech. The strings need not be a
> >> big
> >> > > > source of drag with dyneema but one would need some gloves. I will
> >> > > > have to make up my mind before I start trying to set up for making
> >> the
> >> > > > masts. A simple tapered section makes the most sense and it wouldn't
> >> > > > need the bearings of a lot of other rigs.
> >> > > > Apart from not being common I am not sure what the problems with it
> >> > > > are for a cruising rig. Some people swear by junk rigs and this
> >> makes
> >> > > > more sense to me than a straight junk.
> >> > > > Robert
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>