Subject: Re: [harryproa] Swells in open ocean
From: Paul Wilson
Date: 7/26/2010, 11:29 AM
To: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au
Reply-to:
harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au

 >>>>>>From your description, it appears that your friend is trying to 
point too far downwind, and would be better served by going to a broad 
reach.

Don't get me started.......

When I sailed with the boat, we tried everything to try to get boat 
speed up downwind without using a spinnaker, since we didn't have one. 
Most of the catamarans I saw in the Caribbean, all had swept back 
shrouds with large roach fully battened mainsails and no backstays. I 
honestly don't understand the point of these rigs. I think most would be 
far better using a taller mast with a conventional rig or at least move 
the side stays more forward and use backstays with a smaller roached 
mainsail. Having the side shrouds so far back means it is impossible to 
let the main out more than about 45 degrees from center without it 
chafing on the stays. If you want your mainsail to last, you end up 
having it sheeted right back and pulled tight down. Going downwind, the 
only way to put up a lot of sail area is to go wing and wing unless you 
use a spinnaker. Tacking downwind is always talked about and somtimes 
works but in order for the jib or genoa to fill you need to go about 30 
degrees off to get it out from behind the mainsail. This adds a huge 
amount of distance as well as makes it more likely for the boat to tip 
over in a strong and sudden wind gust. I am not saying it is not done 
but when shorthanded offshore, you do the best you can and sometimes 
sacrifice a little speed for safety.

Anyway, all of this is really immaterial when it come to comfort on a 
small catamaran with a low bridge deck. If the swells are up to 3 
meters, you are going to hit them no matter what point of sail. It will 
be absolutely horrible to windward and just suck downwind but either way 
you are going to do a lot of crashing and banging.

Paul

Kim Whitmyre wrote:

From your description, it appears that your friend is trying to point 
too far downwind, and would be better served by going to a broad 
reach. More comfortable, and likely faster to the destination. The 
design, as Ron hints at, is a question, as is the loading of the vessel.
25 and 30 knots is racing boat territory, and there are plenty of 
craft, mono or multihull, that will do such speeds. But that is with a 
racing crew, on purpose-designed craft. The ORMA 60 trimarans come to 
mind: very strong, ocean-going craft. Here's a link to GEANT in big 
water: GEANT <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJ8vd9p8fDU&feature=related>

Reports from two vessels earlier this year going west mentioned very 
strong El Nino currents setting east, and headwinds, so this year may 
be unusual in some regards.

On 7/25/2010 8:01 AM, Paul Wilson wrote:

I have found the recent threads very interesting and thanks to all for 
their contributions.  One thing has been bothering me though.  Talk has 
been of large proas at high speeds.  I assume these are designs for open 
ocean.  12m, 15 m and speeds of 25 to 30 knots have been mentioned. 

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