Subject: Re: [harryproa] Re: Asymmetric Bi-directional Rudders
From: Rick Willoughby
Date: 8/8/2010, 7:36 PM
To: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au
Reply-to:
harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au

 

Ben

The mirred NACA07310 foil I looked at has a stable working range with a central pivot from -2 degrees to +0.5 degrees.  I have not actually done the calculations to see what can be achieved with a reversing linkage between the blades but it will not be more than -2 to +2.   Not much but they are powerful rudders and do not need much control range.

That statement was based on what I was seeing with the pointier nose section that has steps changes in the moment in the range of interest. Combining two rudders would iron out the bumps a little.  The NACA07310 has progressive moment from -7 to +9 degrees so really not an issue.   

I am not certain of the best way to control the rudders.  I see there is merit in being able to make slight trim adjustment between them while under way because the required lift will change depending on the wind strength and point of sailing.  

With the rig mounted on the lw hull there is a yaw moment from the drag of the ww hull in light wind, sailing free.  In this condition it would be best to have the forward rudder at minimum drag and low lift - possibly even raising it if that can be done. The aft rudder would provide most or all of the lift. In higher wind strength and pointing higher the drag from the ww hull drops off and contributes little yaw moment.  Now you want the forward rudder to provide substantial lift so you are not relying on the hull to provide the lift.

The sections that Tom Speer came up with do not look very good.  I tried the same thing he did using a constant pressure profile and got similar crappy results.  The NACA series 07 sections are mathematically derived and were developed for high speed subsonic flight with the aim of constant pressure profile on the wing.  The 16 series was a slight development to take account of air compressibility but this is not relevant for water.

Rick  
On 09/08/2010, at 1:37 AM, bjarthur123 wrote:

 



> It does highlight the merit
> of rigidly linking the rudders with a reversing linkage so any
> instability in the moment is balanced out directly through the
> linkage.

i don't understand how such a linkage helps with the instability.

if a fore-aft symmetric rudder turns right and the pivot point is aft of the hydrodynamic center of effort (which it would be were the shaft at mid-chord), positive feedback makes it want to turn more to the right. if it turns left, then more to the left. as simulated by mr. speer:

http://www.basiliscus.com/ProaSections/Paper/Moments4.gif

if you connect the rudders to countersteer, which is what i presume you mean by a reverse linkage, then the front one turning right causes the back on to turn left via the linkage. positive feedback within each rudder still exists though, so the front one will want to turn even more right, and the back even more left. nothing about that linkage stops the positive feedback. in fact, it just reinforces it. or am i missing something?

turns out mr. speer has previously described what i suggested earlier: "One option is to place the pivot point toward one edge [instead of at mid-chord], at or ahead of the hydrodynamic center. This results in a surface which is stable when traveling in one direction and even more highly unstable when traveling in the opposite direction. When traveling in the unstable direction, the surface might be firmly fixed in position and act as the keel. A second surface, with the pivot towards the other end, would then serve as the rudder. The two surfaces would exchange roles for the opposite tack. This requires that the surfaces and their linkages have very high torsional stiffness and strength." (from http://www.basiliscus.com/ProaSections/Paper/ProaSections.htm)

rick of course would want the stationary rudder firmly fixed at an angle to the keel such that it prevents leeway. and i would suggest that on visionarry and harry, which already have two steering wheels, the easiest way to do this would be to have the wheels control the rudders independently, with no linkage, and for each have a locking mechanism. to shunt one would then simply center the rudder currently being used to steer, lock it in position, walk around to the other one, unlock and resume steering.

mr. speer's analysis does not have a publication date, but is in a folder created in 2001. i wonder whether there has been any more development since. in particular i wonder whether any boats have been built with such rudders and what control system they are using. that search is next on my long "to do" list...

ben arthur
weta #358, "gray matter"
ithaca, new york


Rick Willoughby
03 9796 2415
0419 104 821


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