Well you would want it to be only just slightly roundng up - for safety, or exactly straight balance. But it was a matter of sheeting on the front schooner sail first to get moving and then you have the steerage way and can sheet in the aft mast and away you go. Otherwise the boat will round up before you get up to speed to be able to steer it properly. This is easier with the bigger rudders ( though I changed rig at the same time as bigger rudders so never got to experience that sailing). Doug in WA --- On Mon, 29/8/11, LucD <lucjdekeyser@telenet.be> wrote: From: LucD <lucjdekeyser@telenet.be> Subject: [harryproa] Re: position of rudders, beams and masts To: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au Received: Monday, 29 August, 2011, 1:57 PM   Isn't this natural tendency a design goal in general? --- In harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au, Rob Denney <harryproa@...> wrote: > > True > > On Sun, Aug 28, 2011 at 9:14 PM, Doug Haines <doha720@...> wrote: > > > ** > > > > > > The natural tendency of the HP is to round up into the wind (weather helm). > > > > > > --- On *Sun, 28/8/11, Rob Denney <harryproa@...>* wrote: > > > > > > From: Rob Denney <harryproa@...> > > Subject: Re: [harryproa] Re: position of rudders, beams and masts > > To: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au > > Received: Sunday, 28 August, 2011, 5:17 PM > > > > > > > > > > Based on my experiences with El, yes. Based on the Blind date experience, > > no. Perhaps if they were bigger on BD. > > > > rob > > > > On Sun, Aug 28, 2011 at 6:13 AM, LucD <lucjdekeyser@...<http://mc/compose?to=lucjdekeyser@...> > > > wrote: > > > > ** > > > > > > Thank you, Rob, for this explanation. So rudders on the beams could have > > worked on BD, one way or another? > > > > Luc > > > > > > --- In harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au<http://mc/compose?to=harryproa%40yahoogroups.com.au>, > > Rob Denney <harryproa@> wrote: > > > > > > The load from the sails on a schooner rig increases lee helm the further > > > apart they are, as the front rig does more work/has more sheet loads. > > > There needs to be enough foil in the water to resist leeway, which is > > solely > > > a function of sail area and hull shape, not rig location. If the rudders > > > are smaller than this, there needs to be a board or keel. If the rudders > > > are large enough and both are going to be used it doesn't matter how > > close > > > to the ends they are, apart from non sailing reasons. Some of these are > > > access, tiller length and hull strength. > > > > > > I like rudders on the beams for safety and ease of construction, and the > > > beams close together to minimise water drag, tensioning the tramp and > > > reducing the length of hull that needs reinforcing. So everything is > > > related, and not always just to optimise the sailing performance. > > > > > > There are a few generalities in the above, but it pretty much conveys my > > > experience with the schooner rig in El. The owner of the KSS El is > > putting > > > 3 mast steps in his boat, so we may get some feedback on schooners in the > > > bigger sizes. > > > > > > rob > > > > > > > > > > > >