I was just trying to be funny.
Got used to 2 rudders.
There is always a little panic on board when a rudder does not work anymore.
But who cares if you have 2?
Nol
--- In harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au, Doug Haines <doha720@...> wrote:
>
> I wonder what Nol meant by "....is absolute poverty sailing with one rudder"
>
> I think one rudder is fine. I can't imagine why you would want the extra complication of trying to steer two at the same time.
>
> What's going on here Rob. Can't anyone else get a single aft rudder to go right?
>
> All I know is that you make it really big/deep and also that the forces/loads on things are very large.
> Kick up was also fine too. The pictures on Sol look vastly improved as a way to raise and lower.
>
> Doug
> HPless
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Rob Denney <harryproa@...>
> To: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au
> Sent: Wednesday, 14 September 2011 7:32 AM
> Subject: Re: [harryproa] Rare Bird rudders
>
> On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 2:18 AM, Gardner Pomper <gardner@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > I have watched all the available videos from Rare Bird and Blind Date and I have a few questions on the rudders (Rob's version, not the replacements that didn't work out).
>
> The current ones are not specifically "my version". My version did
> not work on Rare Bird when first launched. Mark (builder) then
> redesigned them and after a couple of alterations, they work well on
> RB. The beam mounted ones on BD were scaled up versions of the ones
> that work on El. The current BD ones are beefed up (mostly the X
> bracing on the cassettes) versions of BD's. If this is faired, the
> spray will reduce considerably.
> >
> > Can the rudder blades be lifted for shallow water sailing?
>
> Yes, but too far and shunting/sailing gets tricky. As shunting
> experience increases, the sailable draft will drop. The blades are
> raked forward to keep the coe in line with the rotation axis. As they
> are lifted, this gets out of line, so loads increase. High speeds in
> shallow water will not be possible.
> >
> > I believe they kick up. Am I correct?
>
> No. They were designed to fall out the back of the case in an impact,
> which they do very well on BD. I don't like this system as the loads
> on the case as the board exits get large. The back of the case was
> closed off when the X went on BD and a sacrificial tip put on the
> boards, which is a partial remedy. Now that they are working, we are
> looking at various fuses. Any suggestions, much appreciated.
> >
> > Other than the excessive amount of spray, these seem to be a very solid and reasonable way to install the rudders on a HarryProa. However, since Rob has been trying alternatives, and Blind Date replaced them completely for a while, there must be some problems with them. Can I get an explanation of why these rudders aren't a good idea? Most of the alternatives seem to lose the support down near the waterline, which would reduce the spray issue, but require stronger, heavier and more expensive rudders.
>
> I don't like the drag, even when faired. It is also connected to the
> hull, albeit above the waterline. Hence the beam rudders, which are
> far less drag, not attached to the hull but need more support. This
> is a small price to pay for the other benefits, if they work. I still
> prefer the side mounted rudders to in hull rudders for safety.
> >
> > My leading alternative right now is the asymettrical rudders that Todd has been using, but they also have a support near the waterline, so if the Rare Bird style of rudder works, it seems like less risk.
> >
> > Related to this, there was a comment about it being possible to reduce the spray from the rudders by sharpening something... I wasn't clear on what. Might it be possible to reduce spray significantly? I am not seeing how to do that. Related to that, have either boat ever run in heavy seas? Doesn't the rudder mount get submerged? Is that a problem?
>
> Fairing the boxes will reduce the spray. Presumably Aroha was run in
> large seas at some stage, but no issues reported. The rudder mount
> will be submerged, but is not a problem per se unless it hits
> something.
> >
> > My criteria are the ability to lift for shallow water and drop for deep water. Ideally, it would be easy enough to lift that I could just pull the forward rudder up and reduce the spray when on a steady course. I also want kick up protection and wheel steering.
>
> Impossibilities on the spot, miracles take a little longer! I have
> high hopes for telescoping beam mounted rudders, but have not built
> one yet. Your requirements are met fairly easily, except for the
> wheel steering, which is very difficult.
>
> Nol,
> Sorry for the overlap, wrote this before I read yours. Looking
> forward to the next edition. When does the boat come out of the
> water?
>
> rob
>
> rob
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > - Gardner
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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