yes I like junk rigs myself,think it's the sheet-lets that put every body off, looks just like kite lines to me.the only reason it needs wishbones is for changing tac have a normal junk sail with 10% belly but have it same length either side of mast, easy to use sheets either end,easily reefed and a down-haul on one side of the boom,weighted on other side means you can figure 8 the sail,ie; dip the leading edge as you go across the wind.Or have in-mast furling in your boom or yard like the old projection screens
--- In harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au, Arto Hakkarainen <ahakkara@...> wrote:
>
> Low aspect rigs are good downwind. They don't have as good L/D ratio as high aspect and so cannot be as good upwind as high aspect ratio sails.
>
> Mike: take a look at matinbleu.over-blog.com to see one good version of the swing rig. The more I think about it the more I like it. Matin Bleu also has two identical sails arranged as schooner and claim to be very happy after sailing around the world with it.
>
> Arto
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Mike Crawford <mcrawf@...>
> To: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au
> Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 5:41 PM
> Subject: [harryproa] Re: wrong sails
>
>
>
> Ian,
>
> <<lug rigs were used for thousands of years we know they work,they became unpopular because you had to change them round not so on a Proa>>
>
> I can see how a dipping lug could be very efficient -- smooth airflow, nice amount of sail area up high in the wind, no boom or mast to spoil shape or create turbulence, and so forth. I'm a fan of loose-footed or semi-loose footed gaff rigs, such as the Wharram wing sail ( http://www.wharram.com/site/sites/default/files/imagecache/product_full/wingsailconversion_1.jpg ) and the Norseboat gaff rig ( http://www.norseboat.com/NorseBoats_files/norse4.jpg ) for many of the same reasons.
>
> However, I don't see how the proa would eliminate the need to change sides on a dippiing lug, and I don't see how a lug with a boom would be efficient in both directions.
>
> Could you explain?
>
> <<therefor D shaped easy to handle and lots of power>>
>
> Agreed. Another thing I like about the gaff rigs -- if the sail is cut properly, you can get great shape in very light airs without having to manhandle a batten switch from one side to another. I loved that about my Norseboat until I sold it (I live on a north/south inlet, and the mast just wasn't tall enough to sail in light east/west winds).
>
> <<ratio of 3 to 1>>
>
> While that short/wide ratio worked well for crewed ships, it might be a challenge when singlehanding a fast multihull. Switching a sail like that, as with the very efficient crab's claw (at least on a reach), could be difficult to do by one's self once the wind picks up. You'd either need to: a) dip the sail to switch sides, or b) temporarily put the full sail area perpendicular to the wind as the sail switches sides during a shunt.
>
> <<The sails should be>>
>
> Geat link! I've seen pha, and we've discussed it on this forum before, but I wasn't aware of this document. Thanks.
>
> I'm even more a fan of the swing-wing junk rig than the gaff rigs, though I'm still on the fence about it with a proa. I see how it would work very nicely with a single mast, but if I go with a schooner rig in order to get more sail area while fitting under bridges, the swing-wing might get more complex. It would likely require either rotating masts, or at least rotating booms, in order to allow two sails in line to work in tandem.
>
> That said, I'm confused as to how the lugger would deliver the shape of a swing-wing in both directions without the problems mentioned above for the 3:1 ratio low rig.
>
> So, while I don't yet get the lug rig, I guess you could say that I'm again sold on the swing-wing concept. I'm happy to learn more, though. I was highly skeptical of the swing-wing at first, but then discussion, particularly Rudolph's input, convinced me I'd been too hasty in my judgment.
>
> - Mike
>
>
>
>
> iwood1964 wrote:
>
> >hi there,
> >thought I better introduce myself i'm a land-locked kite-boarder with time on my hands,if funds ever allow I will build a boat. As a kite flyer thought i'd let you in on a secret. The Vikings had better sails and sailed Proa's. The sails on harry are Marconi,right aspect wrong kite. The sails on Elementary are the right kite wrong aspect.When kite flying you get power from figure 8'ing you can't do that with the kite fixed to the deck.The time you get the most lift is at the launch.People assume higher the sail more the power,if that's so explain the spiniker it's no higher than any other sail yet provides more drive.It's the width not the length that matters,ask ya missus lol.But being female she'll want both.The Marconi rig should be built like http://www.iannewham.com/kitedesign/design.html
> >The sails should be http://api.ning.com/files/wuqd6jnZ447B6z-TL*zvQ-ZUY39yLmFDKR-Sfqk7aYoBauXbWMn2PzIUAkAb8irOv95w6OnGztYMbO7ylkHyUpNcISKXAEFo/ABOUTSAILS.pdf therefor D shaped easy to handle and lots of power http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lugger
> >lug rigs were used for thousands of years we know they work,they became unpopular because you had to change them round,not so on a Proa.Size of the sail needn't be as big an area as you have I'd say for elementary try a 6x2 meter sail that's width x height so the guy with the broken masts juts needs to use the spare as a yard to try it out.How'd I come up with the ratio of 3 to 1 see;http://www.vikingage.com/vac/ship_theory.html
> >
> >
>
