That rig has sailed through southern ocean and magellan strait so I guess they have seen some wind. And the owners still like it.
On Mon Oct 24th, 2011 11:06 PM EEST LucD wrote:
>It looks though, Arto, that when a strong wind gets inside of the double sided pocket in a way not intended, the whole wing gets destroyed pretty fast. That would be a worry for a cruiser. Luc
>
>--- In harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au, Arto Hakkarainen <ahakkara@...> wrote:
>>
>> Low aspect rigs are good downwind. They don't have as good L/D ratio as high aspect and so cannot be as good upwind as high aspect ratio sails.
>>
>> Mike: take a look at matinbleu.over-blog.com to see one good version of the swing rig. The more I think about it the more I like it. Matin Bleu also has two identical sails arranged as schooner and claim to be very happy after sailing around the world with it.
>>
>> Arto
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Mike Crawford <mcrawf@...>
>> To: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au
>> Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 5:41 PM
>> Subject: [harryproa] Re: wrong sails
>>
>>
>>
>> Ian,
>>
>> <<lug rigs were used for thousands of years we know they work,they became unpopular because you had to change them round not so on a Proa>>
>>
>> I can see how a dipping lug could be very efficient -- smooth airflow, nice amount of sail area up high in the wind, no boom or mast to spoil shape or create turbulence, and so forth. I'm a fan of loose-footed or semi-loose footed gaff rigs, such as the Wharram wing sail ( http://www.wharram.com/site/sites/default/files/imagecache/product_full/wingsailconversion_1.jpg ) and the Norseboat gaff rig ( http://www.norseboat.com/NorseBoats_files/norse4.jpg ) for many of the same reasons.
>>
>> However, I don't see how the proa would eliminate the need to change sides on a dippiing lug, and I don't see how a lug with a boom would be efficient in both directions.
>>
>> Could you explain?
>>
>> <<therefor D shaped easy to handle and lots of power>>
>>
>> Agreed. Another thing I like about the gaff rigs -- if the sail is cut properly, you can get great shape in very light airs without having to manhandle a batten switch from one side to another. I loved that about my Norseboat until I sold it (I live on a north/south inlet, and the mast just wasn't tall enough to sail in light east/west winds).
>>
>> <<ratio of 3 to 1>>
>>
>> While that short/wide ratio worked well for crewed ships, it might be a challenge when singlehanding a fast multihull. Switching a sail like that, as with the very efficient crab's claw (at least on a reach), could be difficult to do by one's self once the wind picks up. You'd either need to: a) dip the sail to switch sides, or b) temporarily put the full sail area perpendicular to the wind as the sail switches sides during a shunt.
>>
>> <<The sails should be>>
>>
>> Geat link! I've seen pha, and we've discussed it on this forum before, but I wasn't aware of this document. Thanks.
>>
>> I'm even more a fan of the swing-wing junk rig than the gaff rigs, though I'm still on the fence about it with a proa. I see how it would work very nicely with a single mast, but if I go with a schooner rig in order to get more sail area while fitting under bridges, the swing-wing might get more complex. It would likely require either rotating masts, or at least rotating booms, in order to allow two sails in line to work in tandem.
>>
>> That said, I'm confused as to how the lugger would deliver the shape of a swing-wing in both directions without the problems mentioned above for the 3:1 ratio low rig.
>>
>> So, while I don't yet get the lug rig, I guess you could say that I'm again sold on the swing-wing concept. I'm happy to learn more, though. I was highly skeptical of the swing-wing at first, but then discussion, particularly Rudolph's input, convinced me I'd been too hasty in my judgment.
>>
>> - Mike
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