Todd,

  My proa always seems to be five years away. 

  This was originally going to be my year, but since we originally started our five-year plan, my wife and I had a daughter, and that changed many things.  Right now we're in the process of planning and building a house, so that will take priority for the forseeable future.  We were all set with a 600 square foot dwelling, but having a little one around while working at home changes space needs substantially.

  So, I'm eternally planning the proa.  At this point, if anyone else does counter-rotating symmetric foils on a larger proa first, I'll be indebted to them.  If not, I'll probably consult with Rob and go down his recommended path of making it easy to switch to directional foils if the experiment doesn't work out.

  I don't see how you come up with the idea that Rob is ripping off anyone's ideas.  As far as I know, Rob has never claimed an idea in the first place, and instead serves more as someone who is getting the weight-to-windward proa idea out there, both in terms of his designs and in terms of his own boats.

  I'll email you for profile and cross section shapes when the time comes.  If you're worried about anyone else ripping off your design, let me know, and I'll be sure to give you credit. 

        - Mike


tsstproa wrote:

 

Mike if you want real answers you can email off this list!

What Rob is really saying is he doesn't know which counter rotating connecting system he is going to rip off next and claim as his own.

For a system that really works I have given all the necessary info and proof of concept. You just have to pay attention to the general details. Look I see it like this, everyone is waiting for the first one to drink from the watering hole. But are blinded by the babble of the nasyers to figure out I have already drank but didn't see it.

Its been fun... enjoy stumbling over each other to get a drink and good luck!

Todd

--- In harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au, Rob Denney <harryproa@...> wrote:
>
> Mike,
>
> The counter rotating, kick up rudders are pretty much figured out in terms
> of how they would work as they were the original idea on harriette and a
> few others. No one has considered them worth the effort, so in that
> respect, you would be the guinea pig if you used them. If you build them
> around a shaft, the kick up mechanism and the rotating for steering would
> be the same as the standard rudders. If the counter rotation was too much
> extra work, or too dangerous, it would not be much work to change them to
> 360 degree rotation
>
> rob
> On Sun, Oct 30, 2011 at 10:59 PM, Mike Crawford <mcrawf@...> wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> >
> >
> > Okay, the foils are symmetrical. But what shape in terms of profile and
> > cross section (cross section in specific)?
> >
> > I'm particularly interested in this because I've been thinking about
> > counter-rotating kickup rudders on a larger proa, perhaps a 46' stretched
> > Harry. However, I'm not yet sure if I want to be the one to try to figure
> > things out. If the Speer section didn't work the way Rob liked, I imagine
> > my first try wouldn't be the golden one.
> >
> > - Mike
> >
> >
> > tsstproa wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > asymm foil symetrical for to aft to start and connect the rudders to
> > counter rotate. This will allow smaller aoa from each board and and better
> > your helm control (steering of the boat) Boat will go exactly where you
> > point it with very little helm input.
> >
> > Todd
> >
> > --- In harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au, "Herb" <squirebug@><squirebug@>wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Todd,
> > >
> > > Very interesting. What shapes do you recommend?
> > >
> > > Best regards
> > > Herb
> > >
> > > --- In harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au, "tsstproa" <bitme1234@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Just like your hulls so to should foils be.
> > > >
> > > > His are to pointy.
> > > >
> > > > I know what your saying at higher boat speeds your front rudder seems
> > to be pushed through the water having no real effect. When with the just
> > the slightest touch of the helm to steer the front rudders stalls
> > completely.
> > > >
> > > > Try with linked boards and you will see a slight change for the better
> > in over all stall angle and responsive steering with out stall. Try with
> > linked boards and a better foil shape designed for the purpose and your
> > eyes will pop out of your head in amazement....
> > > >
> > > > Todd
> > > >
> >
> >
> >
>