Yes thanks Rob for the interesting report. Your proas are developing well.
Cheers
Paul
Sent from my iPad
On 05/03/2012, at 0:32, harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au wrote:
> There is 1 message in this issue.
>
> Topics in this digest:
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> 1.1. Re: 18m Proa Update
> From: mjchimel
>
>
> Message
> __________________________________________________________
> 1.1. Re: 18m Proa Update
> Posted by: "mjchimel" mjchimel@yahoo.com mjchimel
> Date: Mon Mar 5, 2012 12:24 am ((EST))
>
> Rob
> Thanks for sharing your ride. That's a very interesting project. Has the builder shared how much time and money he has in it so far? the finish quality looks great.
> Mark
>
> --- In harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au, Rob Denney <harryproa@...> wrote:
>>
>> Last weekend I sailed on the 18m harry in Melbourne. Many thanks to
>> the owner/builder for a great day.
>>
>> A bit of background:
>>
>> The owner/builder is no Russ Brown. He knew nothing about infusing,
>> flat panel building or sailing before he started, but has a wonderful
>> capacity to have a go and try stuff. To put together a 60'ter,
>> including building the mast, boom and rudders yourself is an amazing
>> feat. To build a boat using a new technique (infused flat panels)
>> and to experiement on a 60'ter takes a huge amount of perserverence.
>> With all this, he is extremely relaxed, quick to own any errors and
>> an all round pleasure to sail with. He also makes a great cup of
>> tea.
>>
>> The boat is not finished, but the bits that are (the galley area), are
>> to a high standard. Like my boats, the rest of it is workmanlike
>> rather than show room. The time, money and weight savings from this
>> approach are appreciable.
>>
>> It is a big, undercanvassed cruiser and this was only the third time
>> it had been sailing with many of the teething troubles yet to be ironed out.
>>
>> The first impression is how large it is. I am no Beken. The photos
>> (in 18m Melbourne Folder in the Photos section)don't give any sense of
>> how large, airy and spacious the boat is. 7
>> of us on board could walk round the bridgedeck easily and safely.
>> Plus the ww hull deck. Equally easily, we could have sat around in
>> the saloon. The galley has lots of space, there are 2 double
>> queen bunks and a toilet in each end of the ww hull.
>>
>> The attributes of a harry are: low cost, easy to build and sail and fast.
>>
>> Low cost: Very. It is built from infused Polycore honeycomb flat
>> panels with curved hull bottoms. 4 tons weight including the rig and
>> motor (according to the launch crane), with open plan layout. The
>> basic boat seems very stiff and strong (no big waves, but no creaks or
>> groans), although a few fittings are too light, but this is easily
>> fixable. There is probably another couple of hundred kgs of fitout
>> (table, fridge, etc) to add. 7 people was a good load, but it made no
>> trim difference where anyone stood.
>>
>> Easy to build: Simple shapes, flat panels, with very few deck
>> fittings. The lee hull is 3m/10' longer and a little narrower than
>> the Vis and the ww hull 4m longer with fewer curves than the Vis
>> cruiser (Rare Bird, 10m). This is by far the biggest harryproa
>> windward hull so far. The only slightly complex area is the motor
>> arrangement which has an electric lift for the 60 hp motor. The well
>> can't be closed off underneath so waves hit it and leak onto the
>> bridgedeck. There are plans for electric motors and/or two smaller
>> outboards. Under motor the boat steers well and picking up the
>> mooring was easy with 2 rudders and a steerable motor, aided by the
>> picker uppers being within easy earshot of the helm.
>>
>> Easy to sail: Not yet, but it will be, once the systems are sorted out. The
>> rudders steer well, the connection and the wheels are ok once you know
>> them, but took me a while to learn (others were quicker) and at night
>> in an emergency would need a clear head. The system uses independant
>> wheels mounted on the lee hull either side of the mast and 2 right
>> angle gearboxes. There is a little play in the boxes and the rudders
>> are only just balanced so there is occasional slop. Steering
>> upwind with the front rudder worked a treat. The aft rudder was set
>> to give a little lee helm. This had the effect of eliminating leeway,
>> which was very obvious when looking at the wake when the boat was
>> going upwind. Occasionally there would be negative leeway, with no
>> obvious loss of speed, which is something I have tried but not
>> achieved on other harys. My photos don't do this justice, but it
>> was quite noticable.
>>
>> Sailing hands off was no problem. The substantial windward
>> hull and 8m beam did not generate any significant weather helm once the boat
>> was sailing, but in light air it is a problem.
>> Shunting was slow (maybe a minute from dump sheet to back on course
>> when it went well), but once the systems are sorted out it should be a
>> quick single handed operation, the same as on the other boats with
>> ballestron rigs.
>> The rudders are about 2m (11%) from the ends and judging by how well
>> they steered, could have been a lot further inboard. They are not
>> liftable, but making them so is on the to do list.
>>
>> Fast: The long, light hulls are very easily driven. The lee hull bows are over
>> half a metre/20" wide at deck level and throw up a lot of water above
>> about 10 knots which slows the boat, albeit quite spectacularly. They
>> are shaped foam blocks, so easily fixed, maybe even with the boat
>> afloat. The below the waterline
>> shape is pretty good, judging by the wake.
>> The wind, boat speed, track and tacking angles are in the "Melbourne
>> 18m" in the Files section. The gps track uses
>> 10 second averages of the speed. These are significantly lower than the
>> instantaneous speeds read off the gps screen and lower again than the
>> "max speed for the day" gps display.
>>
>> Top speed was 14 knots in 33 kms/hour/18 knots of wind. Best was 24
>> in 26/13 knots in 14 knots of breeze.
>>
>> The sails are not right, nor are the systems to trim them. Both are
>> easily sorted. The unstayed mast is very stiff up to the hounds,
>> flexes off nicely in the puffs.
>>
>> One of the people on board was Helena Darvalid, a very experienced
>> offshore women racer. Hopefully she is a better photographer than I
>> am and she or I can post her pictures as well. Helena's partner, Paul
>> Larsen (Sail Rocket, team Phillips and sundry other big multis was
>> also aboard, seeing proas from a very different perspective to what he
>> is used to! Another was Peter Eagles, who does the
>> harryproa engineering. He reckoned the mast would bend about 30% (~5m
>> at the tip before it broke. This probably makes the boat impossible
>> to capsize from wind loads. Sailing master and performance expert
>> Rick Willoughby made sure everything ran smoothly and had a bunch of
>> ideas to improve things.
>>
>> The tacking angle was poor, as the track shows. This was due in large
>> part to lack of main leech tension and hence jib luff tension (a
>> turning block pin was on the verge of popping out, so we did not
>> tension things as much as we could have), and jib sheet tension (no
>> block or jammer). Despite this, upwind speed and hence vmg was
>> not bad, compared to the mono racers that were around at the
>> time.
>>
>> Conclusion: There are a few bugs to iron out,
>> but once they are, this will be a very comfortable cruiser, easily
>> capable of sailing at wind speed.
>>
>> Any questions, let me know.
>>
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