Subject: RE: [harryproa] Matin bleu wing sails |
From: "Jerry Barth" <shredderf16@sbcglobal.net> |
Date: 3/4/2014, 12:58 PM |
To: |
Reply-to: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au |
Rob,
With a biplane unstayed rig would it be
possible to fly an asymmetric spinnaker from the tops of the masts for going
downwind, or do you think that would be too much point loading? I particular I
envision a rope running from top to top, maybe with a car between to act as
kind of a traveler, with the spinnaker halyard on that car.
Thanks,
Jerry Barth
From:
harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au [mailto:harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au] On Behalf Of Rob Denney
Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2014 7:57
PM
To: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au
Subject: Re: [harryproa] Matin
bleu wing sails
Very cool, definitely a lot of progress happening. Soft wings are
the way to go upwind as you can indeed go with a smaller wing to take advantage
of the higher efficiency, which these guys will get when they have camber
contriol. However, downwind in a cruising boat, efficiency is not as
important as sail area, so if you do have a smaller rig, be prepared to fly
extras.
rob
On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 2:37 AM, Jerry Barth <shredderf16@sbcglobal.net>
wrote:
This one is fairly cool, although I don’t see any method of
camber control. There was another one I found about six months ago that
had three or four lines going up the mast that allowed the nose of the foil to
swing though about 20 degrees or so and get more or less camber as
desired. That one also had a 3 or four foot horizontal rod at the top of
the mast to get the back of the sail tight. I really think the soft wings
are the way to go as I believe you could make the whole rig maybe 30% smaller
than a traditional one and still get the same drive.
Jerry Barth
From: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au [mailto:harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au]
On Behalf Of Arto Hakkarainen
Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2014
4:43 AM
To: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au
Subject: Re: [harryproa] Matin
bleu wing sails
Just came across a
more advanced version of the soft wing rig. You may find this interesting: http://soft-wing.ch/
Video of the rig on
a F-18 catamaran: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNbCZkd9tX0
Arto
On Tuesday, February 4, 2014 7:45 PM,
Arto Hakkarainen <ahakkara@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Mike,
Like I said in the
earlier message I have no experience with these rigs. They are very appealing
and the theory sounds good but as we all know theory and practice are the same
only in theory :) I wish I had the chance to test the rig in smaller scale
first. May be a quick summer holiday Project. Now what would be the fastest to
build small proa as a test platform? Fewer build hours the better and never
mind the finish.
Arto
On Tuesday, February 4, 2014 6:38 PM,
Mike Crawford <mcrawf@nuomo.com>
wrote:
Arto,
I went to your link to matinbleu today after looking at that youtube
video and pondering the swing-wing again.
As much as I'm a fan of the swing-wing in theory, I have to admit that
most implementations of it look a little too homebuilt for my tastes, and the
video didn't help. I'd have a hard time putting those lower-aspect
junk-looking sails on a sleek proa.
But the matinblue site had these images of their soft wingsails:
http://img.over-blog.com/500x375/3/98/59/86/1-bilan-voyage/lazyjacks.JPG
http://img.over-blog.com/375x500/3/98/59/86/1-bilan-voyage/deux-ailes.JPG
And one of the sail on a new Beneteau:
http://www.voiles-alternatives.com/documents/ailes_souples/aile_beneteau/aile_beneteau1.jpg
Those are some pretty good looking sails.
I haven't had time to try to translate the blog to see if there are any
construction details (I'm pressed for time and my French is rusty), but they
appear to have the same general concept as the swing-wing, but with flexible
battens going to the leech. Of course, it could be a standard swing-wing
that's just cut and tuned well, but still -- that's not an ugly sail.
Those four reefing lines also look great -- the end result wouldn't be much larger
than a postage stamp.
Do you know anything else about this rig?
That design is so nice that I might even be willing to ignore my own
advice and add a rotating boom in order to skip the multiple junk sheets.
I'm not sure I could go with the rotating masts they use, but a boom might
work, and could conceivably be fixed at sea. The booms might also make
for a more manageable schooner rig as well.
Thoughts?
- Mike
Arto Hakkarainen
wrote:
Low aspect rigs are good downwind. They don't have as good L/D ratio as high aspect and so cannot be as good upwind as high aspect ratio sails.
Mike: take a look at matinbleu.over-blog.com to see one good version of the swing rig. The more I think about it the more I like it. Matin Bleu also has two identical sails arranged as schooner and claim to be very happy after sailing around the world with it.
Arto
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