Rob,

Thanks for the detailed reply! How do those number compare to the Cruiser 60? As many have mentioned before, length is not the only criteria in cost, so I would like to know how much I am saving by cutting back.

- Gardner

On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 2:30 AM, Rob Denney harryproa@gmail.com [harryproa] <harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au> wrote:

 

Interesting thread.  Not much I can add. 

The materials for the  hulls and layout that Gardner has drawn will be about 75 sqm of 12mm H80 foam, 100 sqm of 600 double bias and 70 sqm of 400 double bias glass, and about 70 kgs of infusion resin.  Rough costs, in $AUS (multiply by 0.75 for $US) are $50, $6, $6 and $18.    Plus wastage, mdf for the mould, infusion materials, glue, paint and plans ($3,000).   About $10,000.

2 masts are $10,000 each, sails, booms, rigging and deck hardware about $5,000 each.  $30,000, pro built

Beams, $4,000 each, rudders about the same, $16,000, pro built.

Labour for the hulls depends on how complicated you make the layout and the level of finish.  But the basic lee hull for Bucket List is 2 guys x 2 weeks, painted, with no hatch and nothing inside.  160 hours ($13,000 at $80/hour).  Maybe double this for the windward hull incl the furniture, depending on the layou, hatches, windows, furniture, etc.  

I am confident about all of these except the ww hull labour, which just has too many variables for accuracy.  It would certainly be possible to simplify it, at the cost of losing some of the features. 

The ~30k for labour would be maybe $10k in a low cost country, offset by more expensive materials, shipping costs, import duty, visits, etc.  The actual cost could not be determined until the plans were drawn.

Plus motor, motor mount, tramp, galley stuff, tanks, bimini, upholstery, electrics, etc etc.    Won't be much change from $AUS100,000. Less if you can do the painting and finishing.  Much  less if you build it all yourself. 

Biminis with zip on plastic sides are a great idea.  Take them off for hurricanes, hot weather, maneuvering in tight spaces on windy days  and fast upwind sailing, leave them on the rest of the time.  The liftable deck/pop top over the bunks is a workable idea and could be made leak proof fairly easily, but would add to the cost of building. 

A 40'ter is high on the list of plans to update once we have caught up with the current workload, and the layout Gardiner drew is pretty much how I envisaged one option looking.   Another is an updated Solitarry ww hull.   One of the ponderables is how much weight will be carried, and hence how long the hull should be.  For serious cruising, it will probably be close to 9m/30' for this reason.  

The steering on the large boats is off the hull. Steinar is trying the rudders to leeward, maybe.  Off the beams is problematic if a tender is carried, but oherwise is a good choice.  Running the lines for any of these requires routing them to the beams, then to the wheel.  Steinar is using tillers, which is my preferred option for the 40.

Running dead square, the main sheet on the rear mast will need to be attached to the end of the lee hull.  looping it around the mooring cleat would suffice in most circumstances.  As it is pulled in, it would come free.

Keep the ideas and discussion coming, please.

rob

On Sun, Aug 9, 2015 at 6:39 PM, lucjdekeyser@telenet.be [harryproa] <harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au> wrote:

 

Well, the comparison intended is with 30'ish trimarans and trying to eliminate space that is only used half of the time, day vs night, sailing vs mooring, with vs without guests, bad vs good weather, ...

Carrying "in case" space is expensive. But double use call for conversion techniques that require smart compromises over those of the planform like the proa itself. And then the market even requires it to look good and allow ad lib changes. 

 

If the accommodations of that cat are your target I would be inclined to reuse the center part of the mold of the 30' ww hull for the lw hull and just extend the bows up to 40'.