Subject: [harryproa] Re:: Wing Sail Benchmarks
From: "robriley@rocketmail.com [harryproa]"
Date: 1/9/2016, 12:58 AM
To: <harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au>
Reply-to:
harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au

 

ok so this paper attached at the end of this post nails some things down


"A sloop rig sail can achieve a maximum lift coefficient of 08 if the jib and sail are perfectly trimmed.
Realistically, an operating maximum lift coefficient of 0.6 is more likely. The design goal of the Atlantis wing is to achieve a maximum lift coefficient of 1.8. Because this allows the wing to generate 3 times the force of an equivalently sized sail, the wing area is reduced to one-third of the area of the original sails."

So from a cruising perspective whats on offer from wind sails?

Benefits
* an optimum of performance on a reduced size plan
* self trimming
* ability to point higher

Principle detraction's?

* need for a suitable solution for bearings
* snatching hunting veering behavior at anchor
* complicated arrangements to induce twist
* problematic to fit necessary mast accessories

The Negatives First

I think if we are saying the bearings are an issue, then we already have a problem with HP designs which already use them. Yet it seems to me since Ive never heard Rob Denney describe problems in his experience we might be conflating a non issue. It doesn't mean the problem is gone, it might mean critical attention to materials selection and design.

Certainly veering at a mooring or on the hook is a dangerous behavior in need of attention, I think knowing why this happens is the secret to eliminating it. Is it akin to aircraft parked on the apron in high winds needing aerodynamic anchors? If so air brakes are the answer either strapped on or inclusive in the wing (which might mean an additional wing spar).

It is true that wind direction will vary with height too which my only solution is to reduce height with lower performing lower aspect ratio wings and symmetric sections more tolerant of AoA issues. I can see that other ways of dealing with this maximise the performance benefits, but they also reduce the self trimming capacity, to me a serious downside. I think people disinterested in racing might feel this way too.

Among the necessities to haul aloft like compliant nav lights courtesy flags, radar reflectors, antennas, etc there are some safety niceties like radar that I would personally like to consider. My most reliable strategy to this so far is having another mast purely for equipment, which all the serious shipping has gone for for some time.

Among the Positives
If the discussion were about drag aloft, perhaps a neater tighter plan that actually can outperform the conventional would be high in ones considerations. I do not see people seriously contending wing sails are of degraded performance just fears of some calamity due to gear failure. For cruisers in particular a self tending rig must be considered a positive attribute especially if you are likely to find yourself short handed even dare I say in poor or inclement weather. On a four on four off basis its like adding 2 crew that never need passports feeding or God forbid monies for their services.

https://users.soe.ucsc.edu/~elkaim/Documents/aiaa_elkaim_config.pdf

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Posted by: robriley@rocketmail.com
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