Subject: Re: : Re: : Re: [harryproa] Re:: Lucs Proa
From: "Rick Willoughby rickwill@bigpond.net.au [harryproa]" <harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au>
Date: 5/14/2016, 1:48 AM
To: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au
Reply-to:
harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au

 

Luc

I have not done any renders of the hull in waves but I do have a series of charts.  These charts show the freeboard for the aft, middle and bow of the hull as well as the pitch angle.  All charts show a 12 second time window and there can be initialising dynamics at the beginning as I do not make any effort to set initial conditions.  The initial dynamics are largely a function of the natural frequency of pitching which is a function of the waterplane and the second moment of inertia.  I have guessed a value for that of 6000kgm^2 for the latter.  The motions are not highly sensitive to the moment of inertia but is something you should work out once you have the boat design data.

All conditions assume deep ocean waves and unlimited fetch.  The motions get harsher and submersion greater if the waves are steeper.

This particular program is aimed at dynamics of the hull rather than accurate speed prediction. I have added rudder/dagger board drag and now I have the true and apparent winds calculated correctly.  It does not have hull windage as a drag component but I have reduced the sail lift coefficient to offset that somewhat.  The result of doing that is the top speed for a given windspeed is higher on the wind than it would be in practice.  I get best speed around 70 degrees apparent but it would be more typically around 90. 

This hull with 50sq.m of sails is nicely behaved in 12kts of wind on all points of sailing.  The following group of charts are for 6m/s of wind at reducing angles to the wind starting at 140.  I have done this so you can work through the charts from the low to higher levels of acceleration.  
https://www.dropbox.com/s/zx3ttqy8cejvfvd/lw_Pitch-6-140.pdf?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/scae5dbb4zannoy/lw_Pitch-6-90.pdf?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/tm0ionigctqc9ag/lw_Pitch-6-70.pdf?dl=0
 https://www.dropbox.com/s/m1f1jznvctcke3d/lw_Pitch-6-40.pdf?dl=0
In each case you will see the aft portion of the hull is completely airborne as the freeboard reaches its maximum.  This is something I have observed on the 18m proa.  Off the wind the bow is never submerged. At 90 degrees to the true wind the bow is occasionally submerged.  At 40 degrees the bow goes from completely airborne to a submergence of the deck in excess of 0.2m.  At 40 degrees you would be sailing higher on the wind than your best VMG.  (The boat speed at smaller angles to the wind are optimistic due to the primitive method for considering windage.)  If you had Cds for the windage I could refine this model.  They are a requirement for my VPP.  I would normally calibrate the dynamic model against the VPP.

I then looked at what speed was possible at 70 degrees apparent and increasing windspeed:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/qkezvud3r3c52tz/lw_Pitch-9-70.pdf?dl=0
You should expect to exceed 20kts without much drama with bow occasionally submerged.  With wind to 9m/s the middle is still not being submerged.

I also considered wind to 10m/s at 50 degrees:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/l264kkkluqwkueg/lw_Pitch-10-50.pdf?dl=0
To my mind this is beyond the limit.  The bow is often submerged under green water.  The mid section is also occasionally immersed.  In that condition the boat rapidly loses longitudinal static stability and the flow over the submerged portion of the deck needs considering.  It is only dynamically stable.  Note that I do not make allowance for additional drag from deck gear that gets submerged.  For example you would need to consider streamline flow over the trailing end of your raised foredeck.  The problem with dynamic stability is that, if the boat slows rapidly due to sudden increase in drag, it will surely pitchpole.

Reducing sail and lowering the CoE reduces the dynamics to a more reasonable level:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/vx3u1ekpbni0bzu/lw_Pitch-10-50-40sqm.pdf?dl=0
Bow is now only occasionally submerged to 0.1m and there is always freeboard in the middle.  Speed is still above 20kts.

If you want to draw up a hull in the wave I can give you the parameters that define the wave in each case.  I have assumed the waves are perpendicular to the true wind.  If you do a sequence of drawings it might make more sense.  I assume sinusoidal waves.  I would need a 3D drawing of your hull to do a decent render of it waves.

Overall the raised bows appear to provide sufficient longitudinal stability to get to at least 20kts.  

Rick 



On 14/05/2016, at 3:49 AM, lucsimard@ymail.com [harryproa] <harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au> wrote:

Rick,

forgot to re-add the column

x=375 mm    v=0.046 m3  beam=0.08 m
x=1125 mm   v=0.123 m3  beam=0.21 m
x=1875 mm   v=0.180 m3  beam=0.31 m
x=2625 mm   v=0.220 m3  beam=0.38 m
x=3375 mm   v=0.244 m3  beam=0.43 m
x=4125 mm   v=0.252 m3  beam=0.45 m
x=4875 mm   v=0.254 m3  beam=0.45 m
x=5625 mm   v=0.233 m3  beam=0.45 m
x=6375 mm   v=0.217 m3  beam=0.45 m
x=7125 mm   v=0.216 m3  beam=0.45 m

Thanks a lot,
Luc

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Posted by: Rick Willoughby <rickwill@bigpond.net.au>
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