Rick:
That sounds like the normal way to build, usually bulkheads and stringers are the form, and remain in the boat. It may be the simplest, but it is very labor intensive, as the entire exterior surface must be finished, and of course building the interior is labor intensive also, crawling in and out fitting the pieces, etc.
The whole reason I'm involved in this group is to examine the possibility of using Rob's "intelligent infusion" to reduce labor, dust, resin use, and finishing time. If a simple female form with slick smooth surface can be built of MDF, or some other material, and then the outer layers of glass laid in, followed by the foam core, and the inner layers of glass, with "features" formed in to accept bulkheads, and an entire half of a hull infused with resin all at once, leaving a finished exterior surface, I'm willing to spend the time on building the form. Two hull halves built from each form, the entirety of the two hulls can be laid up and finished in fairly short order once the forms are built. The only external seams being the center seam at the keel, and the seams where the coach roof(s) are joined. The inner surface of a hull does not need to be fiberglassed, which is an ordeal.... working down inside the hull.... It's already done. It should be possible to fit most of the internal furnishings / features in the half hulls, in fact bulkheads and furnishings could be installed in one hull half before it's even removed from the form. This method could shave months of very unpleasant hand labor off from a build.... avoiding most of the sticky dusty work, and most of the mess.
When Rob uses the term "intelligent infusion", what it means to me is using your intelligence to avoid the most unpleasant brute labor. It means investing some money and some time up front to build the molds, to save a LOT of time and labor throughout the process, and some weight. The molds are low tech, and involve inexpensive materials that one can afford to write off. An ideal situation would of course be to have several builders wanting to build essentially the same boat. That isn't realistic of course, because the reason I'm talking about building at all is that the boat I want does not exist. The story of my life........... What I want is NEVER what everybody else wants. A good friend of mine, who is in his 90's once criticized me as being "out of step"............ I don't think he ever realized that I took it as a complement....... It had to do with the politics of the time, but in reality applies to almost every aspect of my life. The Nazis were "in step". I would hope that being "out of step" was as American as apple pie ;-)
H.W.
On 05/28/2018 05:11 PM, Rick Willoughby rickwill@bigpond.net.au [harryproa] wrote:
That sounds like the normal way to build, usually bulkheads and stringers are the form, and remain in the boat. It may be the simplest, but it is very labor intensive, as the entire exterior surface must be finished, and of course building the interior is labor intensive also, crawling in and out fitting the pieces, etc.
The whole reason I'm involved in this group is to examine the possibility of using Rob's "intelligent infusion" to reduce labor, dust, resin use, and finishing time. If a simple female form with slick smooth surface can be built of MDF, or some other material, and then the outer layers of glass laid in, followed by the foam core, and the inner layers of glass, with "features" formed in to accept bulkheads, and an entire half of a hull infused with resin all at once, leaving a finished exterior surface, I'm willing to spend the time on building the form. Two hull halves built from each form, the entirety of the two hulls can be laid up and finished in fairly short order once the forms are built. The only external seams being the center seam at the keel, and the seams where the coach roof(s) are joined. The inner surface of a hull does not need to be fiberglassed, which is an ordeal.... working down inside the hull.... It's already done. It should be possible to fit most of the internal furnishings / features in the half hulls, in fact bulkheads and furnishings could be installed in one hull half before it's even removed from the form. This method could shave months of very unpleasant hand labor off from a build.... avoiding most of the sticky dusty work, and most of the mess.
When Rob uses the term "intelligent infusion", what it means to me is using your intelligence to avoid the most unpleasant brute labor. It means investing some money and some time up front to build the molds, to save a LOT of time and labor throughout the process, and some weight. The molds are low tech, and involve inexpensive materials that one can afford to write off. An ideal situation would of course be to have several builders wanting to build essentially the same boat. That isn't realistic of course, because the reason I'm talking about building at all is that the boat I want does not exist. The story of my life........... What I want is NEVER what everybody else wants. A good friend of mine, who is in his 90's once criticized me as being "out of step"............ I don't think he ever realized that I took it as a complement....... It had to do with the politics of the time, but in reality applies to almost every aspect of my life. The Nazis were "in step". I would hope that being "out of step" was as American as apple pie ;-)
H.W.
On 05/28/2018 05:11 PM, Rick Willoughby rickwill@bigpond.net.au [harryproa] wrote:
I have found the simplest, easiest way to build a flat panel hull is to build a frame to support the shell upside down during the construction. Lay up one side of the panels as flat panels. Cut them to shape by matching to the frame then sheath the outside of the shell in one go. That produces a lightweight shell that can be inverted; frame removed then the chine seam taped. That gives a shell that generally holds its shape while other stiffeners can be sheathed in. The only requirement is to ensure the stem and stern (or second stem for a proa) remain true until the hull is enclosed and gains torsional rigidity.
No vacuum bagging required. The only requirement is to get the full sheathing on the outside done before the epoxy cures.
The main benefit is avoidance of taped joins on the outside so the fairing requirement is reduced to filling the weave. This achieves a weight similar to an infused hull in a mould.
On 29 May 2018, at 1:22 am, StoneTool owly@ttc-cmc.net [harryproa] <harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au> wrote:
and therefore these structures can be built one of two ways. Either as 3 separate panels joined at the seams later, or in a mold that begins with the desired shape.
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Posted by: StoneTool <owly@ttc-cmc.net>
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