Doug:
We are looking at things from the opposite perspective here. I'm looking at the smallest boat that will do the job, and the most usable internal space for length, weight, and cost, you are looking for the most boat you can afford, and the greatest speed and comfort. I'm constantly juggling spaces to make a smaller boat do more for me. I would prefer to build the KD 860 with the hulls in stock length, and avoid a lot of extra work. I would not be comfortable with anything smaller in a cat for ocean voyaging. I would in either case add a wing or knuckle to improve the utility of the hull space. The wing (pelican) looks simpler, and of equal value. The KD 860 has the hull section aft of the galley notched to provide seating in the cockpit, rendering the inside space fairly useless. I would change this as Pete did on Oryx. I would also eliminate the dual transverse berths forward of the saloon, turning them into singles by moving the forward saloon bulkhead forward a foot, providing space where it is of far more value to me. This improves the hull spaces on either side of the bridge deck greatly, providing for a 6' galley with counter top space on both sides, or stowage on the outboard side & possibly a "grow space" above by the ports for fresh greens............. and so the process continues. This is a personal boat that will be my home, among other things. I really would like 30', but I'm not sure it's worth it. In reasonable weather, I live from a house, not in a house. Like most men, a house is somewhere to shit, shower, and shave, as they crudely put it here, not a "nest" as it is for women.
H.W.
On 05/31/2018 10:21 PM, Doug Haines doha720@yahoo.co.uk [harryproa] wrote:
We are looking at things from the opposite perspective here. I'm looking at the smallest boat that will do the job, and the most usable internal space for length, weight, and cost, you are looking for the most boat you can afford, and the greatest speed and comfort. I'm constantly juggling spaces to make a smaller boat do more for me. I would prefer to build the KD 860 with the hulls in stock length, and avoid a lot of extra work. I would not be comfortable with anything smaller in a cat for ocean voyaging. I would in either case add a wing or knuckle to improve the utility of the hull space. The wing (pelican) looks simpler, and of equal value. The KD 860 has the hull section aft of the galley notched to provide seating in the cockpit, rendering the inside space fairly useless. I would change this as Pete did on Oryx. I would also eliminate the dual transverse berths forward of the saloon, turning them into singles by moving the forward saloon bulkhead forward a foot, providing space where it is of far more value to me. This improves the hull spaces on either side of the bridge deck greatly, providing for a 6' galley with counter top space on both sides, or stowage on the outboard side & possibly a "grow space" above by the ports for fresh greens............. and so the process continues. This is a personal boat that will be my home, among other things. I really would like 30', but I'm not sure it's worth it. In reasonable weather, I live from a house, not in a house. Like most men, a house is somewhere to shit, shower, and shave, as they crudely put it here, not a "nest" as it is for women.
H.W.
On 05/31/2018 10:21 PM, Doug Haines doha720@yahoo.co.uk [harryproa] wrote:
Like I was saying before, unless you have a constraint such as trailering or mooring. Surely there is not much reason to keep the length to a minimum.
What is an extra 2,3 or 5m?
I was thinking that the Ian Aitkin king of trailering would be a good solution to the mooring problems, so therefore would need to have both bows folding and still get a 15m lw hull on a trailer.
If you have a good safe mooring available with no length restriction then go for 20m!
I understand most places will make you fit in to what moorings are available. So there may be certain set limits you may need to deal with
Doug
Friday, 1 June 2018 01:33:29 AM AWST, mcrawf@nuomo.com [harryproa] <harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au> wrote:
StoneTool,
If you're set on a 30' catamaran, so be it. I personally like longer hulls if they'll fit into my criteria (being able to trailer and store the boat), but that's not to say you'd feel the same way.
Just for the sake of discussion, though, I'm curious about the 30' length.
I've seen you mention a few reasons, including cost, build time, and the difficulty of having to handle a larger boat.
But what if a 40' proa could carry the same weight, go faster, be more seaworthy, be easier to handle, and cost less to build than the 30' catamaran?
The AIR 40 looks like it would accomplish a lot of what you want with sheltered bridge deck accommodations, two double beds, a head, and a beam that collapses down to allow the boat to trailer and/or fit into a monohull marina slip. Even the 30' cat wouldn't fit into a monohull slip.
The proa would be a longer boat that the 30' cat, but given the unstayed rigs that you can depower at any point of sail, and the ability to shunt in very low and very high winds, it's going to be easier and safer to sail.
Imagine never having to worry about a tack or gybe, regardless of the wind strength, even if you're singlehanded and pinched between a supertanker and some shoals...
And while cost does tend to go up exponentially with boat length, an intelligently-infused 40'-er is only going to be incrementally more expensive than the same weight boat with 30' hulls.
---
That said, you might have a storage facility that's not long enough for a 40' boat, and is too short to allow hull ends that fold up.
Or you might have made up your mind for other reasons that will never, ever change. I can appreciate that.
I was just curious about your take on the AIR 40.
I also wanted to ask in a friendly way before submitting another post on hull length and shape -- I didn't want you to think that the next post is part of a campaign to get you to drop the cat design for the 30' length criterion.
- Mike
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Posted by: StoneTool <owly@ttc-cmc.net>
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