Subject: Re: [harryproa] Hull construction materials
From: "Rob Denney harryproa@gmail.com [harryproa]" <harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au>
Date: 6/16/2018, 7:07 PM
To: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au
Reply-to:
harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au

 

We developed Intelligent Infusion as the ease and speed of building, lack of contact with toxic materials, low/no maintenance and weight savings offset the lower cost of ply, frames and stringers.  The smaller the boat, the less obvious the cost,  weight and build speed difference is.  

There is no reason why you could not build the harry hulls in plywood without plans. You would save money and use techniques which are well known.   You could also build the beams from timber and ply, use windsurfer rigs or build a poly tarp crab claw and steer with an oar.  You would be doing what many people have already done.  Unfortunately, the vast majority of them are disappointed with the results and give up on proas all together.    
The next step up is more likely to succeed.  Build the ply hulls, estimate the beam and rudder structure, put whatever rig you can find on it and go cruising.  This would definitely work for someone with a bit of experience, which Doug definitely has.  I would be more than happy to help anyone who wanted to do this, on a "pay me what you value the information at" basis.  Or, hit the right buttons on the chat groups and I or someone else will provide it for free  ;-).
The third step is to build the ply (or strip plank) hulls and get the design for the rest from us.   

I have no problem with any of this, but strongly advise anyone contemplating it to build a small sample of each before they decide.  Set up 3 frames, add scarphed pieces of ply, glass sheathe and fair it. Build a small section of mould and infuse it.   Only diehard penny pinchers will go with the ply.

XPS 400 foam costs $29 per sq m for 35mm.  Slice it and it would be $9.30 per sqm for 11mm.  I have some samples, which are impressive in terms of compression/dent strength and easy to cut with a saw.  I will be slicing it when my abrasive string arrives and doing some infusions.  Will let you know.  On a small boat, it is probably no more risky than using crap 9mm ply, which costs $14 per sq m, plus butt blocks.  Glass will be more expensive for the foam ($12/sq m vs $6), resin will be similar, although if long life and water absorption are not a worry, the ply could just be painted.   6mm marine ply at $35 per sheet is $11 per sqm.   If the 35mm foam can be sliced into 6mm sheets, it would cost $6 per sqm.  

Kits:  No aversion to kit boats, either. There is a builder who is prepared to produce them, but is stuck in the "first boat of it's kind" loop.  There is no point him investing  the time in an accurate quote until he knows what people will pay for, or in building the moulds until he has an order.   The hulls are not difficult to build.  The kit would also need to contain the beams, rudders, mast and boom.  These are not "kit items", would cost the same if the boat was pro built.  So, there is not a lot of point in building 4 hull halves, plus the internal panels and shipping them to someone who will spend a couple of days gluing them together.  Might as well pay the builder a small extra amount to do this.  Or, build them yourself.  However, if anyone was interested in buying just the infused bits, I am sure the builder would supply them.  


On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 8:04 PM, Doug Haines doha720@yahoo.co.uk [harryproa] <harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au> wrote:
 

When i look at the current hull shapes of hp's it seems worthwhile consider=

ing cheaper and quicker plywood.

I appreciate the idea of doing a first class jib with infusion, foam etc. B=

ut when all the shapes are flat and square then you could avoid the cost of=

foam and the set up and cost of infusion and use ply.

Marine ply is not cheap, but cheaper ply and the glass covering would get y=

ou something that should only weigh a few kilos more, and so should perform=

realistcally well.

Rudders, mast etc still made with carbon, foam etc.

My idea of, let's call it a maxi camper? Is not really needing the first cl=

ass, blue ribbon construction is it?

It'd acheive the goal of gojng faster anf further than Elementarry camper I=

'm sure.

How cheap a deal can one get on plywood though. It is acting as mold, core =

and strength material. If it's covered inside and out jn glass, cheaper stu=

ff would do realistically. Somewhere in between the extremes of:  a boat th=

at lasts forever even through hurricanes and a boat that falls to pieces af=

ter only a couple of years.

Doug

Perth

--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 13/6/18, '.' eruttan@yahoo.com [harryproa] <harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au> wrote:

Subject: Re: [harryproa] Cabins and cockpits again.
To: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au
Received: Wednesday, 13 June, 2018, 12:49 PM


 













|> So, the idea is that I can step outside to make a
small adjustments to, say, the tiller extension, (Those are
tiller extensions in the Ex40 renderings (pic #1 and 2),
right?), as I am having soup and cruising along, reefed to
some extent, in the rain, on a cold morning?

|>

|> For the Great Lakes sailors, does that seem
reasonable?

|>

|​ Sure. Add an auto pilot and stay inside with the
remote so long as you keep a good look out for other
vessels, microbursts, etc. The tillers shown are one of
many steering systems we are looking at.

| The whipstaff idea someone mentioned has been growing on
me as it is so versatile. I will use one on El once the new
rudders are on and see how it goes.



That was me! Actually, that was you, talking about the
builder in Peru??? And what might work for them.
(Harryproa.com is offline for me, so I could not look the
name up)



A whipstaff works like a vertical tiller extension,
right?











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Posted by: Rob Denney <harryproa@gmail.com>
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