Subject: Re: : Re: Re:: Re: [harryproa] Hull construction materials
From: "Doug Haines doha720@yahoo.co.uk [harryproa]" <harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au>
Date: 6/16/2018, 2:15 AM
To: "StoneTool owly@ttc-cmc.net [harryproa]" <harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au>
Reply-to:
harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au

 

Hi Stone The Crows,

I was not aiming the last post at you in particular, just commenting on the fact that every project I looked at in the DIY forum were all pretty much the same as each other and of the 40' plus size with huge internal space and every inch polished.
Had another look at what you mention is your preferred boat and I can see the differences.
Much more frugal and compact. In fact it would also be what I would look at if not for the HP's.

I think the HP has an advantage over cats in that you could really join on any sort of a ww hull you like for the given lw hull.
So if you really need huge accomodations, then that is your choice and can be done within the HP range.
But for pretty much the same length lw hull you could at the opposite extreme go like the BL.
Both should still sail within expectations. 

The added bonus in an HP is the one hull having accomodations and cokpit all combined so not splitting things into each hull.. The bridedeck on the cats is also maybe not ideally sized and situated but are used as best as can be done by the designer.
For example on the HP, you can sit at the table in the cockpit and do your steering/helming, with your cup of tea and book and whatever next to you. No need to have extra seats and stations for the same purpose. I have only coast cruised around Perth, but I was always planted in the one position on deck doing the sailing. Only reaching in to the cabin for drinks, food and so on. So you end up utilizing space more efficiently.
On a bigger HP than the El camper I imagine still just sitting in the one comfortable spot with tiller and lines all set up and no need to move around. Some automatic sailing would be possibly another story.
But you would still end up sitting at the cockpit/saloon table and keeping a watch even if the steering was being done automatically somehow.

The arrangement with the Bridge deck cats seems to be underutilized until you have a party or a charter or other social engagements.







On ‎Saturday‎, ‎16‎ ‎June‎ ‎2018‎ ‎11‎:‎03‎:‎56‎ ‎AM‎ ‎AWST, StoneTool owly@ttc-cmc.net [harryproa] <harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au> wrote:


 

On 06/15/2018 05:10 PM, Doug Haines doha720@yahoo.co.uk [harryproa] wrote:
 

That's a good story about the canoe.
Sounds likd you made better use of school time than most.
Btw what region are you in, from, intending to sail mostly?

On the subject of interior space:
I was having a browse at DIY boat projects online just yesterday and saw they were mostly all similar 40' plus cats.
2 things stood out from the build log photos. Firstlt, the cabin space is enormous. This is function of thd design and plans. Secondly, the buikders mostly were fairing and finishing every square inch of every surface of the boat inside and out to mirror polish.

These 2 points are actually contradictory to what boats shoukd be like. Traditionally a small sail boat ( as opposed to ocean liner) is going to be cosy and comfortably cramped. You have your berth and tables and cockpit etc, taking minimal space. Just suffucient for the job. Weights and windage kept low. Every spare inch is used for storage and so on.

So i see these bridge deck cats with large open areas huge dining suites, lounge suites big ovensm fridges, several double beds enclosed private cabins. This is not inline with traditions of sailing small boats,
It seems the fashion to try to sell people onnthe luxury of a five stsr hotel whils sailing.
I guess that is a challenge to try and make something like yhat, but i really wonder what the point is, other than selling and money values.

The other point is related, having to polish every sq inch. Again seems pointless except for selling points and showing off purposes.
I faired to mirror finish the rudder blades on sidecar, this was an enjoyable job to do, wasn't too hard, and had a purpose of sailing better.
Some people were spending 3,4,5 years doing only bog, sand and paint.
It's supposed to be a boat. Shiny surfaces where people walk and hold on to are infact going to be worse as it will be slippery.

I would have thought multihull sailors would have a bit more common sense and down to earth practicality than this.

Doug
Perth
--------------------------------------------


Doug:
    Your stereotype is not me at all..........  You are used to looking at 40-50 foot cats.... "condo cats".   I'm talking about a 30 footer.   The hulls have fairly small usable spaces.  The galley will be 5-6' ( 1.5 to 1.8M long), as will the space on in the opposite hull.   The bridge deck cabin will have more or less the same longitudinal length.   Forward and aft, the spaces quickly become very narrow.  There will be standing height ONLY in the hulls, and only for a fairly short distance.   Go to Richard Woods website and look at Sagitta to get an idea of the amount of space in a 30' cat.

    With that in mind consider that this will not be a recreational boat so much as my home for a number of years.... my only home.  There are two stand up indoor workspaces.... the galley and the opposite hull area.   I'm a man who works with his hands.  I always have a project, I'm always building something or fixing something, and that fits in with boat life.  The port hull area opposite the galley will be a work bench area for fixing things and projects, etc.  The bridge deck cabin is not a stand up area.  It's a rather small lounge area for relaxing indoors, reading, keeping watch in nasty weather, small table top projects, etc, and will also probably be my main indoor sleeping area, as I sleep in a recliner, and it makes sense to be able to wake up and have a look around, step outside without having to climb a companionway ladder.  The berth spaces will largely go unused except for guests and temporary crew, and light stowage.  I'm not talking about a condo cat.  30' is about as small as one can go in a cat and have sufficient space and payload..... to satisfy me.   I don't need all the frills you are used to looking at in boat shows.  Everything on board will more or less be functional and minimal.   The galley will  NOT be equipped with a 4 burner stove and oven, microwave, big refrigerator, hot and cold running water, coffee grinder, blender, mixer, food processor, and all that shoreside garbage.  In fact I will have virtually no plumbing... gravity containers with spigots, and a hand transfer pump from whatever tanks I end up with onboard.  Head will be composting, with a "direct deposit" option in the cockpit for offshore.  The only shower will be a solar shower.  There will be no TV, VCR, or stereo system... some inexpensive speakers for my Ipad or laptop.  I may have a hand crank washing machine.  I WILL have a home built watermaker, and am looking at the option of making that human powered...... the math works.     It will not be fancy...... or even spic and span.   I would rather it always looked just a tad shabby.... in need of paint, etc.   Fancy makes you a target for thieves, and there are plenty of those in the ports of the world.   The things that really matter will be sound and reliable from the home built stitch and glue dinghy through high quality sea hatches and ports, ground tackle, safety equipment, and good communications.  
    When someone visits my boat, they won't walk or row away thinking about all the good things to steal ;-)  It won't be a boat set up to please the spoiled suburban ladies.

    One of the ports in coastal Washington will be my home port of record only.   I have family throughout Oregon and Washington..  The Pacific Northwest is not known for mild weather or climate.  It's known for violent weather offshore and plenty of rain and cold wind.   A good reason to have sufficient indoor space.    I hope to sail the Pacific coast from Alaska south to similar climates in the southern hemisphere, as well as the Pacific islands, NZ and OZ, the Philippines, Japan, Indonesia, SE Asia, the Indian Ocean, parts of Africa, the coasts of the Atlantic as far north as Norway, Iceland, and Greenland.  This is all about seeing the world, and spending years..... many of them, doing it.  No set goals, no time limits, etc.    I expect to be alone much of the time sailing, occasionally taking on crew if I feel like it...... No rules.   It will likely take years just to get beyond the Pacific.  There are a lot of places to visit without even venturing very far west.  I could care less about tourist traps, bars, restaurants, and all the things that seem to draw people like flies to s__t.   I'm  not wired that way at all.   You won't find me in marinas and crowded anchorages unless just to check in with immigration or buy supplies. 

                                                                                   H.W.

__._,_.___

Posted by: Doug Haines <doha720@yahoo.co.uk>
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a new topic Messages in this topic (17)

.

__,_._,___