Subject: Re: [harryproa] Questions on Elementary and Ex40 |
From: "Rob Denney harryproa@gmail.com [harryproa]" <harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au> |
Date: 6/24/2018, 8:35 PM |
To: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au |
Reply-to: harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au |
Like many others posting here, I pretty much decided that multihull is the better way for me. If anyone is interested in the whys-fors of what I looked through / considered, then feel free to ask, else I will not bore the list. So far I have ended up narrowing it down my 'first round draft picks' to Bernd Kohler (cat, eco 6 to start) and Rob (proa).
End game for me is to consider the idea of live aboard/cruising as possible life choice. But it will be a gradual gearing downing though. I imagine there would even be some years marina bound for internet use for work while I built up more of a cruising kitty / cushion, so that is a thing. In any event I am making beginning moves in that direction now. I joined up with a local boat builders group, and even went sailing for the first time last Saturday. I consider it a rousing success in that I tacked and gybed, all while managing the tiller and the sail for a few hours - and no one got thunked in the head, nor did anyone end up cast into the drink. Yay me.
Now building will be a new to me, I am not exactly handy (yet), but am not completely inept either if I set my mind to something. Still, the idea of building a largish live aboard from the get go seems a bit of a stretch.. Instead, a smaller day sailor or tender seems more in order as a way to build up the skills (and minimize the costs of oopsies) needed to tackle something more complex. Also, it will produce results in a faster time that can then be used while something else is being built. Keep in mind I need to learn a lot besides the building itself - like sailing. So, this makes sense to me at least, even if it adds a year to the overall build time.
So desirable wants for the first boat beyond normal harry stuff?
1) Can carry a few (2-5) folks for day sailing / fishing plus say two coolers, two anchors and chain, a small electric outboard / trolling motor and its’ battery(es).
2) Trailerable <= 10’ width. <= 8’6” is ideal as nothing special is needed, but in most of the states that matter to me 10’ is just a fairly cheap permit added on (and of course dealing with maneuvering that extra width)
3) Reasonably fastish setup and pack away for re-trailering. One person can do it with a bit of practice hopefully.
4) Design can be modified to be built in (ideally) one side of a two car garage Say 21’ by 8’. Final assembly / painting can be outside/elsewhere, but most of the work needs to be done in the smaller area.
5) Single handable in a case something goes wrong, or I feel like solo sailing.
6) Will undoubtedly need after sale support. Ok, so not really a ‘boat thing’ but important none the less.
7) Relatively cheap and easy to build
This gives some questions on Elementary and Ex40. I will start with the El since that seems the better first boat fit for now, and leave the Ex40 questions for later posts if needed.
>> Elementary.
1) It seems like an older design versus the ex40/Air/Cruiser series. Is there an updated version, or would that not make much difference in build time, performance and costs? Example, I think that the elementary is telescoping versus the newer ‘horizontal folding arm’ version of the Air/Ex? Or, the more rounded looking versus the newer more squared off look - presumably for easier building, etc.
2) I am interested in hearing about (and using) the wing sail results as well as new rudders. Would def consider these.
3) Is there a ballpark sail away materials costs (or at least mat list) and build time estimate? I will assume to add about 20% to that time given I am a newb. To make things easy assume the schooner rig since that is probably more known.
4) Dimensions. Approx weight? Payload? Folded width on a trailer? Mast height?
5) How do you set up / lower the mast? Can one person do it? Overall ballpark setup / take down time?
Comments / Thoughts?
Like many others posting here, I pretty much decided that multihull is the better way for me. If anyone is interested in the whys-fors of what I looked through / considered, then feel free to ask, else I will not bore the list. So far I have ended up narrowing it down my 'first round draft picks' to Bernd Kohler (cat, eco 6 to start) and Rob (proa).
End game for me is to consider the idea of live aboard/cruising as possible life choice. But it will be a gradual gearing downing though. I imagine there would even be some years marina bound for internet use for work while I built up more of a cruising kitty / cushion, so that is a thing. In any event I am making beginning moves in that direction now. I joined up with a local boat builders group, and even went sailing for the first time last Saturday. I consider it a rousing success in that I tacked and gybed, all while managing the tiller and the sail for a few hours - and no one got thunked in the head, nor did anyone end up cast into the drink. Yay me.
Now building will be a new to me, I am not exactly handy (yet), but am not completely inept either if I set my mind to something. Still, the idea of building a largish live aboard from the get go seems a bit of a stretch. Instead, a smaller day sailor or tender seems more in order as a way to build up the skills (and minimize the costs of oopsies) needed to tackle something more complex. Also, it will produce results in a faster time that can then be used while something else is being built. Keep in mind I need to learn a lot besides the building itself - like sailing. So, this makes sense to me at least, even if it adds a year to the overall build time.
So desirable wants for the first boat beyond normal harry stuff?
1) Can carry a few (2-5) folks for day sailing / fishing plus say two coolers, two anchors and chain, a small electric outboard / trolling motor and its’ battery(es).
2) Trailerable <= 10’ width. <= 8’6” is ideal as nothing special is needed, but in most of the states that matter to me 10’ is just a fairly cheap permit added on (and of course dealing with maneuvering that extra width)
3) Reasonably fastish setup and pack away for re-trailering. One person can do it with a bit of practice hopefully.
4) Design can be modified to be built in (ideally) one side of a two car garage Say 21’ by 8’. Final assembly / painting can be outside/elsewhere, but most of the work needs to be done in the smaller area.
5) Single handable in a case something goes wrong, or I feel like solo sailing.
6) Will undoubtedly need after sale support. Ok, so not really a ‘boat thing’ but important none the less.
7) Relatively cheap and easy to build
This gives some questions on Elementary and Ex40. I will start with the El since that seems the better first boat fit for now, and leave the ex40 questions for later posts if needed.
>> Elementary.
1) It seems like an older design versus the ex40/Air/Cruiser series. Is there an updated version, or would that not make much difference in build time, performance and costs? Example, I think that the elementary is telescoping versus the newer ‘horizontal folding arm’ version of the Air/Ex? Or, the more rounded looking versus the newer more squared off look - presumably for easier building, etc.
2) I am interested in hearing about (and using) the wing sail results as well as new rudders. Would def consider these.
3) Is there a ballpark sail away materials costs (or at least mat list) and build time estimate? I will assume to add about 20% to that time given I am a newb. To make things easy assume the schooner rig since that is probably more known.
4) Dimensions. Approx weight? Payload? Folded width on a trailer? Mast height?
5) How do you set up / lower the mast? Can one person do it? Overall ballpark setup / take down time?
Comments / Thoughts?
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