Subject: Re: [harryproa] Dragging a prop
From: "Arto Hakkarainen ahakkara@yahoo.com [harryproa]" <harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au>
Date: 8/29/2019, 8:22 AM
To: "Rick Willoughby rickwill@bigpond.net.au [harryproa]" <harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au>
Reply-to:
harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au

 

To continue a bit on this topic:

Some high profile ocean racers are choosing Oceanvolt now. See Alex Thomson and Hugo Boss Racing https://www.alexthomsonracing.com/oceanvolt/ 

Also two weeks ago in Helsinki floating boat show I talked with the owner who was presenting his boat with Oceanvolt and 22 kw battery. He said he can motor 10 hours at 4-5 knots (38 foot Swedish made monohull that sails well) and that he is never going back to diesel.

So still pricy but to me more and more attractive option. Of course better the boat sails including light weather the more attractive the electric option becomes.

Also they have a bit different system to charge while sailing. The system limits the folding propeller to rotate at 600 rpm or 10 rps that is enough to keep the blades open. Also they claim that the slowing down is negligible. Seems like they limit the charging and also the slow down of the vessel. 

Arto

On Thursday, July 25, 2019, 03:26:50 AM GMT+3, Rick Willoughby rickwill@bigpond.net.au [harryproa] <harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au> wrote:


 

Apart from the cost compared with outboards, none of these standard units are well suited to a HP.  With a sail drive you need to make certain the prop can be held folded when sailing backwards at say 15kts.  You also need to ensure the prop does not feather or fold automatically when motoring at speed backwards.  I think at least one of the props offered has locked folding or feathering but you need to check.  The other disadvantage is that the sail drives are always in the water.  In addition to reducing sailing performance in low wind, they prevent beaching on hard ground unless you provide a load bearing keel to protect the legs, which further increases drag.  


The best off-the-shelf option I have seen for a HP is from Krautler.  They offer submersible motors that can easily be incorporated into a swing up drive off the side of the hulls.  These pods work almost as well in reverse as forward:
These pod drives are propped tp maximise bollard pull rather than best motoring efficiency.  My experience suggests that is a good way to go although it reduces the battery range by maybe 20% or so; not an issue if you have diesel back up. 

I know Robin Ward was considering Krautler through all4solar but I do not know what was eventually installed:
The cost estimates I saw from all4solar were lower than what Oceanvolt are offering.  

The units installed on the 18m proa used DC motors rated at 9kW on 48V driving a gearbox and large plastic prop.  They each have 5kWh batteries.  The total cost was almost recovered from the sale of the 60HP outboard.  We managed to cover 14nm at 4kts in dead calm with some current assist with that arrangement.  The air cooled diesel was around $2000 landed.  The new 52HP diesel cost a packet and is still being sorted.  The one aspect we did get right was the water pick up.  The main flaw was sizing the drive belts for the generator rating rather than the motor peak torque.  If the diesel is started in gear the governor is full opened and the motor achieves peak torque until the govenor settles down.  The dampening plate on the output shaft is not sufficient to prevent the belts from breaking.  

With the diesel, the generators can be spun up to rated voltage of 90V so each generator output is 18kW, meaning two are close to the rating of the diesel.   

The other point worth mentioning is that the battery systems and the diesel generator system are totally independent apart from the drive legs on the 18m proa.  There is a single changeover switch that enables either mode.  That is easy to achieve with DC motors/generators.  In fact the generators are identical to the motors.  It is a bit more complicated with induction motors because you need to be able to source reactive power from an overexcited synchronous generator or fit capacitors with an induction generator. 

If you have reliable controllers then you could just stick with charging the batteries from the generator.  All this can be done with off-the-shelf equipment.  The size of the generator would be selected in conjunction with the size of the batteries.  I would set the limits at (a) the generator being able to supply continuous power to hold 4kts in dead calm conditions and (b) the combination of battery and generator being able to sustain  4 hours at 5kts in 25-30kts of wind.   

Rick



On 24 Jul 2019, at 8:29 pm, Arto Hakkarainen ahakkara@yahoo.com [harryproa] <harryproa@yahoogroups.com.au> wrote:

Any opinions on the Oceanvolt system (except that it's pricey)? Oceanvolt 

They have powered many fast multis and some racing monos and clients seem happy. They have regeneration and also the diesel hybrid option for range issues. Some examples


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Posted by: Arto Hakkarainen <ahakkara@yahoo.com>
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