Apparently, mike got the last word in, as, I think, the group no longer accepts posts.

But I had composed this, and didn't want it to goto waste.

| > Why can the integrated tender under the ww hull not do this? Please detail the concerns you have or see. I can't see them.
|
| I just don't see the geometry working out if the tender is going to remain attached to the main boat and the outboard lifted clear of the water, while the tender is under the on-water collapsed proa.
|
| If the tender's bow is fastened to the forward beam in "sled mode", the top of the tender will have to clear the sunken cockpit and stairwell on the windward hull when the stern is in the water.

It is tuff to discuss without pictures. But I'll try.
When the tender is under the ww cabin, I do not think it needs tipped, but rides and is fastened flat on the water under the hull. Perhaps up against the hull, depending on clearance. If there is enough clearance, or too much, raise the front tight to the ww hull bottom. I think. Its a guess.

Looking at the Ex40 renderings, a 5' wide hull fits fine under the ww hull, lee of the step, but easily inside the imaginary 10' line we discussed.

| Also, at that angle, I'm not sure how the outboard could be kept high and dry when not being used.

I dont understand this. Why would the outboard not be dry under the ww hull in marina mode or trailer mode?

| Depending upon the beam setup, that might mean detaching the tender completely and hooking it up to a new connection point when collapsing for a marina. That would be enough hassle to where I'd eventually find excuses not to do it.
|
| (This laziness is a personal limitation. I enjoy exerting large amounts of effort in the pursuit of specific goals. However, little things like a few extra tasks when putting the boat to sleep at the end of the day, inevitably when the wind has died and the mosquitoes and midges are feasting, become obstacles for me. I also wouldn't want to have to detach and reattach the tender's bow in a 25-knot breeze with 2' chop. Maybe that's fun once or twice, but after a few times, it would become a reason to not use the boat any time the weather's not perfect)

It a task to do, but its done from the deck, in some short minutes. I do not have the details, but my guess is hook the lines over the beams to the tender, drop it, and glide it over to under the ww cabin, and tie it off. Thats what, 5 min, maybe?

Then finish the collapse and use the tender to drive it where you like. Seems easy.

| I'd also worry about being able to work on the motor when the tender is underneath the windward hull. Working on the motor when the tender is hauled up to deck level would be a dream compared to a normal outboard setup. But squeezing under the hull and doing maintenance when it's breezy out could be a challenge.

So, when in a marina, and you are collapsed, it might be hard to work on the tender?
Perhaps use the lines to move it out and hang it off the fore or aft beam?

| > I dont know how a 12' boat with 2' hulls fits on a 8' trailer.

| Ha! Yes, it would have to be a 12' trailer.

| I've struggled so much with our current expanding/collapsing trailer that I just want a simple dual or triple axle 12' trailer that doesn't change size or shape. Part of it is emotional, part is practical.

Sure. I think a few 12 beams bolted to a 8' trailer is probably cheaper/lighter/better than a full 12' trailer. No one cares if the deck is 12' and the wheels are 8'. The 12' sticker goes with the trailer. You probably want to raise the deck over the fenders anyway.

| Any mechanism that has to support a boat's weight on land while
| expanding/collapsing, and also be able to endure immersion in salt
| water, is destined to fail, or at least jam.

I am convinced. 12' deck on a 8' trailer that does not move is fine though, right?

| If the boat can stably be collapsed on the water, it can probably be hauled even without its custom trailer.

A standard flat bed, perhaps with a deck would work. Its not really custom.

| Say, at a marina with a smaller travelift, or even on a big flatbed (probably have to lift with a crane, but still an option).

Why not winch the boat onto the flat bed that was backed down the ramp, like, I think, most boats do it?

| So being able to drive up onto the trailer in the water, secure the bow, and tow the boat over to a prep area is a fixed requirement for me.

You have said this a few times, but, in my limited experience, the electric trailer winch pulls the boat up, while it floats on to the trailer, where it is secured, to the trailer. Then the trailer is driven up the ramp and the boat settles on the the trailer as it comes out the water.

Is that not your experience?

| > But you still need a motor, and a way to get on the boat when swimming or load/unload.
|
| True. If I waffle long enough, even more things will get solved in the meantime, possibly the variety of seemingly-conflicting tender requirements.
|
| But until that time, a solution could be a permanent narrow sled for the motor under the cabin/cockpit, and perhaps another removable drop-down sled/steps next to the leeward hull. The boarding steps could even fasten to the side of the a flip-up toybox that will live on top of the leeward hull when the boat is collapsed.

All true. And this is just talking, which is cheap, and, I think, fun. I am learning lots, so thanks for engaging.

But that tender between the beams tho...